Title: I lost my job
Post by: bethalize on May 01, 2001, 09:00:09 am
I can hardly believe that I'm here writing this. For anyone who hasn't seen my previous posts, five weeks ago I took the job of office manager and PA to the director with a German company. I chose the job very carefully, stating that I wanted to work for a small company where I could be myself, rather than a large company where I had to be a square peg in a square hole.
Yesterday, out of the blue, my boss calls starts talking to me whilst we are having a cigarette. We then took the conversation inside to his office. He has had complaints about me from two directions.
The first one is easier for me to live with. It was from the German part of the company who had given him a list of complaints about me. It was a complete character assasination. They were the most tiny little things that addedup to a huge list. Things like I was scruffily dressed at training (this is a huge lie - I wasn't wearing makeup as it reacts badly with my skin, but I had clean hair and clothes - hell, I wore a suit, and one woman was there in jeans! They said that I kept asking questions (this is apparently a problem for them - I thought I was there for training not indoctrination), that I left a dirty tissue under my table (as though I did such a thing on purpose) and lots of other things. It may be that there was a corporate culture that I knew nothing about, but they really went to town on me. Giving out non-standard business cards was another (they were personal cards given on a personal level). It really, really shocked me. The first thing I did was to take a long hard look at myself and see if I really did all the things I said, and all I can say is that I was my normal self, that I was never rude to anyone, and that all I can think of is that it was a much more formal atmosphere than I could ever have realised. Even if this is the case, I swear to you that apart from that one mistake caused by ignorance, I didn't warrant the venomous attack that I was given. I went through these with my boss, and he accepted all my explainations.
The other line of attack came from the staff who were with me in Germany, saying they couldn't possibly work with me because they didn't like or trust me. My boss, of course, was left with no option but to fire me, as the sales force is vital to his business (whereas I wasn't). He was doubly cross because that was the second time in two weeks that they've done something like this, grouping together and making an accusation (last time was at him). The biggest thing that they came up with was that I didn't want to be a PA. I cannot believe this as I chose my job really carefully, and there is NO WAY that I want their jobs (I have a personal theory that they couldn't cope with a fat clever person because I was like nothing they've ever encountered in their gym-going designer-clad minimalist lives). I was putting my all into the job, so this came totally out of left field for me.
My boss was great and told me that he didn't feel like that at all, that the reason we would give for my leaving was that I'm "overqualified". He's given me a great reference, and has been on to my agency telling them just that, including that he really likes me and that he'll probably want to continue to stay in touch with me.
The reason that I'm sharing all this with you, my fellow admins, is that being "overbright" and "larger than life" are two things that I've heard before. I may be paranoid by picking up on them, but I don't want to be blind to my faults. I can chalk Germany up to experience and keep my mouth shut in foreign countries in future.
I used to think that I was blessed by being confident and bright. Now I'm wondering if I'm cursed. Employers ask for bright, confident admins - and don't like it when they get them.
If I was reading this my immediate reaction would be to assume that I was extremely loud and extrovert and insensitive, but hand on my heart I don't think I am.
Tell me this: do admins really go to work every day and hide themselves? Do I need to keep looking until I find my niche or do I need to change myself to fit in? I've already ruled out working for a big company or an accoutants or lawyers. Are there creative industries where I'd be welcome? Or should I give up on being an admin and go and get trained to do something else?
As you can probably imagine, I'm a little confused about my career direction.
Yesterday, out of the blue, my boss calls starts talking to me whilst we are having a cigarette. We then took the conversation inside to his office. He has had complaints about me from two directions.
The first one is easier for me to live with. It was from the German part of the company who had given him a list of complaints about me. It was a complete character assasination. They were the most tiny little things that addedup to a huge list. Things like I was scruffily dressed at training (this is a huge lie - I wasn't wearing makeup as it reacts badly with my skin, but I had clean hair and clothes - hell, I wore a suit, and one woman was there in jeans! They said that I kept asking questions (this is apparently a problem for them - I thought I was there for training not indoctrination), that I left a dirty tissue under my table (as though I did such a thing on purpose) and lots of other things. It may be that there was a corporate culture that I knew nothing about, but they really went to town on me. Giving out non-standard business cards was another (they were personal cards given on a personal level). It really, really shocked me. The first thing I did was to take a long hard look at myself and see if I really did all the things I said, and all I can say is that I was my normal self, that I was never rude to anyone, and that all I can think of is that it was a much more formal atmosphere than I could ever have realised. Even if this is the case, I swear to you that apart from that one mistake caused by ignorance, I didn't warrant the venomous attack that I was given. I went through these with my boss, and he accepted all my explainations.
The other line of attack came from the staff who were with me in Germany, saying they couldn't possibly work with me because they didn't like or trust me. My boss, of course, was left with no option but to fire me, as the sales force is vital to his business (whereas I wasn't). He was doubly cross because that was the second time in two weeks that they've done something like this, grouping together and making an accusation (last time was at him). The biggest thing that they came up with was that I didn't want to be a PA. I cannot believe this as I chose my job really carefully, and there is NO WAY that I want their jobs (I have a personal theory that they couldn't cope with a fat clever person because I was like nothing they've ever encountered in their gym-going designer-clad minimalist lives). I was putting my all into the job, so this came totally out of left field for me.
My boss was great and told me that he didn't feel like that at all, that the reason we would give for my leaving was that I'm "overqualified". He's given me a great reference, and has been on to my agency telling them just that, including that he really likes me and that he'll probably want to continue to stay in touch with me.
The reason that I'm sharing all this with you, my fellow admins, is that being "overbright" and "larger than life" are two things that I've heard before. I may be paranoid by picking up on them, but I don't want to be blind to my faults. I can chalk Germany up to experience and keep my mouth shut in foreign countries in future.
I used to think that I was blessed by being confident and bright. Now I'm wondering if I'm cursed. Employers ask for bright, confident admins - and don't like it when they get them.
If I was reading this my immediate reaction would be to assume that I was extremely loud and extrovert and insensitive, but hand on my heart I don't think I am.
Tell me this: do admins really go to work every day and hide themselves? Do I need to keep looking until I find my niche or do I need to change myself to fit in? I've already ruled out working for a big company or an accoutants or lawyers. Are there creative industries where I'd be welcome? Or should I give up on being an admin and go and get trained to do something else?
As you can probably imagine, I'm a little confused about my career direction.
Title: Re: I lost my job
Post by: workerbee on May 01, 2001, 09:13:35 am
I'm so sorry to hear this! I know how excited you were at the prospect of growing with this job and company.
Now I know I'm going to get blasted for this, but I won't work for Germans (and I'm of German descent!). They don't understand the American way of life & business and they don't want to! Especially where women (bright, capable women, that is) are concerned. They still think we have no place in business, except as maids.
You shouldn't have to "hide" yourself at your job; this was just a bad fit. Have faith that the right job/boss/company is out there, and you'll find them! You deserve to be appreciated for your work and abilities.
Elaine
Now I know I'm going to get blasted for this, but I won't work for Germans (and I'm of German descent!). They don't understand the American way of life & business and they don't want to! Especially where women (bright, capable women, that is) are concerned. They still think we have no place in business, except as maids.
You shouldn't have to "hide" yourself at your job; this was just a bad fit. Have faith that the right job/boss/company is out there, and you'll find them! You deserve to be appreciated for your work and abilities.
Elaine
Title: Thanks
Post by: bethalize on May 01, 2001, 09:26:03 am
Elaine, thank you. Your words are a vote of confidence I really needed to hear right now. And I am so glad that I was here to read them shortly after you replied.
Liz
That was a looong post!
Liz
That was a looong post!
Title: Re: I lost my job
Post by: andrea843 on May 01, 2001, 09:45:35 am
LIZ! My heart goes out to you! And I too am about to get blasted for my reply.
Do we as admins have to hide ourselves? Sometimes. Sometimes being the best and the brightest is not what others want to see. Sometimes, being smart and capable, is not what others want to see. Sometimes they just want what they want, a subservient,stereotypical Admin, one who does not complain, one who does not excel and one who exists only to serve the whims of their "Betters".
I have come to a point in my career where I do not hide, what I am, how smart I am, or what Im capable of doing. Sometimes it backfires. sometimes it intimidates both coworkers and employers alike (:chuckle: try working with people who now know you are the "Woman who runs that website for admins" )
The point of all this? I agree with other posters who said this job was not a good fit. Liz, you are one of the smartest people I know in lots of areas. Part of what you faced WAS cultural. I speak from direct experience having worked for a german owned company that was trying VERY hard to do business in the US without adopting an "american" mindset towards employees.
The thing that bothers me most though, is the fact that your boss (okay former boss) indicates that this is the "second time" this has occured in two weeks. I wonder when the sales team got the idea that they indeed are running the show, making decisions about whom to hire and fire? let me tell you where they got it, from a boss who hasnt the backbone to stand up to them.
This company hired you, spent the money to send you to germany for training, and is willing to do away with you so quickly? OVer a litany of whining charges, that really have very little to do with whether you can, in fact, do the job?
You're better off without em Liz, and while that doesnt change the hurt, or the devastation of being out of work, consider where you would have been in a month or two, when you relied on that boss to back you up?
Fortunately you're getting a good reference from these bozo's consider that a blessing and go out there try again, take no prisoners!
also take some saged words to heart:
"You don't drown by falling in the water; you drown by staying there."
~ Edwin Louis Cole ~
Do we as admins have to hide ourselves? Sometimes. Sometimes being the best and the brightest is not what others want to see. Sometimes, being smart and capable, is not what others want to see. Sometimes they just want what they want, a subservient,stereotypical Admin, one who does not complain, one who does not excel and one who exists only to serve the whims of their "Betters".
I have come to a point in my career where I do not hide, what I am, how smart I am, or what Im capable of doing. Sometimes it backfires. sometimes it intimidates both coworkers and employers alike (:chuckle: try working with people who now know you are the "Woman who runs that website for admins" )
The point of all this? I agree with other posters who said this job was not a good fit. Liz, you are one of the smartest people I know in lots of areas. Part of what you faced WAS cultural. I speak from direct experience having worked for a german owned company that was trying VERY hard to do business in the US without adopting an "american" mindset towards employees.
The thing that bothers me most though, is the fact that your boss (okay former boss) indicates that this is the "second time" this has occured in two weeks. I wonder when the sales team got the idea that they indeed are running the show, making decisions about whom to hire and fire? let me tell you where they got it, from a boss who hasnt the backbone to stand up to them.
This company hired you, spent the money to send you to germany for training, and is willing to do away with you so quickly? OVer a litany of whining charges, that really have very little to do with whether you can, in fact, do the job?
You're better off without em Liz, and while that doesnt change the hurt, or the devastation of being out of work, consider where you would have been in a month or two, when you relied on that boss to back you up?
Fortunately you're getting a good reference from these bozo's consider that a blessing and go out there try again, take no prisoners!
also take some saged words to heart:
"You don't drown by falling in the water; you drown by staying there."
~ Edwin Louis Cole ~
Title: So Sorry to Hear the News
Post by: goldenearring on May 01, 2001, 09:51:22 am
and away - GE
Title: Re: I lost my job
Post by: chris68 on May 01, 2001, 09:54:02 am
Liz,
Sounds like you've gotten some of the best advice already I just wanted to remind you that Andrea hit the nail on the head when she said it was their loss when they fired you. And you were right in chaulking this one up to experience.
Best of luck to you in finding just the right company and the right position for you...it's out there you just need to find it.
Chin up and good luck.
Chris68
Sounds like you've gotten some of the best advice already I just wanted to remind you that Andrea hit the nail on the head when she said it was their loss when they fired you. And you were right in chaulking this one up to experience.
Best of luck to you in finding just the right company and the right position for you...it's out there you just need to find it.
Chin up and good luck.
Chris68
Title: BETH
Post by: kknisley on May 01, 2001, 09:56:44 am
Sweetie, I'm so sorry you had to go through this. It is a shock and it hurts, but trust me, you will get through this. Congratulations for getting a wonderful recommendation from your boss, that is where the real truth lies.
Title: Hang in there!
Post by: donnap99 on May 01, 2001, 10:08:52 am
I was so distressed to open this thread and see that it was YOU posting! Other posts have already given all of the advice I could think of... just hang in there!
Everything happens for a reason (so I keep telling myself!)...
Donna
Everything happens for a reason (so I keep telling myself!)...
Donna
Title: Re: Hang in there!
Post by: officeduchess on May 01, 2001, 10:58:01 am
Liz -
I am very sorry that you have had this experience. From all of your previous posts and helpful advice to others, I think you would be a wonderful person to work with. I think sometimes others are very threatened by people who have a good head on their shoulders, and basically have it together. I'm very disappointed in your boss because he recognizes that you are a great employee and he still let you go. To me, there is something wrong with this man and his sense of priority. I also have a problem with a "group/gang" mentality of how these "problems" were addressed to you. So, you left a tissue under the table, big deal! Everytime I go looking for a pen in my purse, something falls out! Maybe this wasn't such a good match after all and I think you are better off working with a manager that values you for you. Part of that value means that when you are doing a great job, they recognize it and go to bat for you! I see wonderful opportunities in your future and please don't go changing yourself because you sound like a fabulous person already!
OfficeDuchess (wishing you worked with me here in VA)
I am very sorry that you have had this experience. From all of your previous posts and helpful advice to others, I think you would be a wonderful person to work with. I think sometimes others are very threatened by people who have a good head on their shoulders, and basically have it together. I'm very disappointed in your boss because he recognizes that you are a great employee and he still let you go. To me, there is something wrong with this man and his sense of priority. I also have a problem with a "group/gang" mentality of how these "problems" were addressed to you. So, you left a tissue under the table, big deal! Everytime I go looking for a pen in my purse, something falls out! Maybe this wasn't such a good match after all and I think you are better off working with a manager that values you for you. Part of that value means that when you are doing a great job, they recognize it and go to bat for you! I see wonderful opportunities in your future and please don't go changing yourself because you sound like a fabulous person already!
OfficeDuchess (wishing you worked with me here in VA)
Title: Shocked!
Post by: Katie G on May 01, 2001, 11:07:47 am
Oh, Beth, this is just awful.
It's like that old saying about kissing frogs and finding princes. Unfortunately, you got a real toad this time. You're really better off without them. I, for one, really HATE the "out of left field" routine AND the "other people said" routine. Frankly, they're both indicators of cowardice (and cowardice leads to bigger problems later!).
Take that great reference you're boss is giving you, bind up your wounds, and go get 'em!
Rootin' for you in Philly,
Did
It's like that old saying about kissing frogs and finding princes. Unfortunately, you got a real toad this time. You're really better off without them. I, for one, really HATE the "out of left field" routine AND the "other people said" routine. Frankly, they're both indicators of cowardice (and cowardice leads to bigger problems later!).
Take that great reference you're boss is giving you, bind up your wounds, and go get 'em!
Rootin' for you in Philly,
Did
Title: Shocked!
Post by: ozbound on May 01, 2001, 11:46:49 am
Oh my word! I'm so sorry to hear you lost your job. But it's like Andrea & the others have already said--it's their loss. It probably boiled down to politics and a personality/culture clash. I'm sure that a bright, talented individual like yourself should have no trouble finding another great job soon.
Hugs!
Hugs!
Title: Re: Shocked!
Post by: yankeestarbuck on May 02, 2001, 12:06:10 am
Liz, I too am sending you the positive energy and love from NYC! I totally understand your situation. I was fired from my last job in August and my fiance lost his job in February. I began working again, but he is still looking. He's very sad and very depressed and does not think he will get another job. It breaks my heart daily to live with him, knowing he thinks he's worthless. I beg of you, do not ever fall into this category. Do not let yourself think that this was your fault, because the evidence posed in the case does not form a positive prima facaia case. This is circumstantial at best and probably VERY cultural.
::BIG HUGS:: Please think of this a good thing. You didn't want their nasty old job anyway, dija? (I love sour grapes, huh?)
Andrea, no blasting, but yeah we hide ourselves. Trust me, if I let loose on the kinds of things that I know, they would look at me cross-eyed. Like my director, who doesn't understand how an electromagnetic lock would work in case of a fire. (Easy Jerry, no electricity, not magnet, no lock.) But there are those coworkers who look at us as "know-it-alls" and that's why we hide. Or at least I do. Besides, if I told you about the reasons why most people get caught for their crimes, you'd fall asleep anyway.
Liz, take yourself out for a nice dinner then get yerself out looking again! Bestest of luck!
::BIG HUGS:: Please think of this a good thing. You didn't want their nasty old job anyway, dija? (I love sour grapes, huh?)
Andrea, no blasting, but yeah we hide ourselves. Trust me, if I let loose on the kinds of things that I know, they would look at me cross-eyed. Like my director, who doesn't understand how an electromagnetic lock would work in case of a fire. (Easy Jerry, no electricity, not magnet, no lock.) But there are those coworkers who look at us as "know-it-alls" and that's why we hide. Or at least I do. Besides, if I told you about the reasons why most people get caught for their crimes, you'd fall asleep anyway.
Liz, take yourself out for a nice dinner then get yerself out looking again! Bestest of luck!
Title: 24 hours on
Post by: bethalize on May 01, 2001, 02:06:54 pm
Thank you all for you words of support. Andrea, when I grow up I think I am probably going to be reeeeeaally similar to you! The boss is totally aware that his team are trying to take him for a ride and is intending to get tough at the annual meeting this week (the hotel is booked, but the food isn't!). Yankee, I'm so sorry to hear that your partner is still looking. I hope he finds something soon. Didn't you mention that he was a programmer? Did - I love the frog analagy, although I've alwys heard it applied to men before (you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince). Duchess - aw, shucks! and ditto, my dear. GE, acronyms a-go-go here.
I've been going over my life today and I have a plan. Here it is:
1. Finish typesetting the book I'm doing because an extra week will be welcome.
2. Go back to temping with my agency (who have been great by the way, probably because they can keep re-selling me!)
3. Find out some qualification to get me from the over-qualified for where I am but underqualified for upwards void, find out where they teach the course, get a place and get funding.
Then...get a job! The funny thing is that all the career orientation quizzes I did said I should be a journalist or a graphic designer. I don't want to be a journalist because of the culture that comes with it, but some sort of writer or graphic designer sounds promising. I shall be thinking hard over the next couple of weeks. So what do bright people with not so good academic qualifications do? Buckle down and work a bit harder for the next one I suppose.
Regarding Yankee's point about hiding yourself, is this the norm for others too? Do people really live their lives compartmentalised? From these boards I know that there are very bright, articulate people working as admins. Are admins treated differently in the USA? And what about our German friends? Does the status of administrative assistants differ to the status of managers?
Anyway, I'm surprised at how not devastated I am now, and your words have helped take the sting out of it all.
Thanks guys!
I've been going over my life today and I have a plan. Here it is:
1. Finish typesetting the book I'm doing because an extra week will be welcome.
2. Go back to temping with my agency (who have been great by the way, probably because they can keep re-selling me!)
3. Find out some qualification to get me from the over-qualified for where I am but underqualified for upwards void, find out where they teach the course, get a place and get funding.
Then...get a job! The funny thing is that all the career orientation quizzes I did said I should be a journalist or a graphic designer. I don't want to be a journalist because of the culture that comes with it, but some sort of writer or graphic designer sounds promising. I shall be thinking hard over the next couple of weeks. So what do bright people with not so good academic qualifications do? Buckle down and work a bit harder for the next one I suppose.
Regarding Yankee's point about hiding yourself, is this the norm for others too? Do people really live their lives compartmentalised? From these boards I know that there are very bright, articulate people working as admins. Are admins treated differently in the USA? And what about our German friends? Does the status of administrative assistants differ to the status of managers?
Anyway, I'm surprised at how not devastated I am now, and your words have helped take the sting out of it all.
Thanks guys!
Title: It's not what you know...
Post by: daisylee on May 01, 2001, 02:21:41 pm
But who you know and how you play their game. This really has little to do with a national culture more than a mindset. They DON'T want to play the game with someone that they can't control...probably got that impression from you immediately. So what do you do when you can't get them to play ball by your rules? YOU KICK THEM OFF THE TEAM!!!!!!!! For the silliest and stupidest most insignificant reasons you can think of, so you have NO recourse to come back at them! This my dearest Liz, happens with very regular frequency here in the states, and, I'm sure, across the globe.
Phooey on them! And shame on your boss for letting them run over the both of you! I'm heart broken you have to be back at square one, but I'm willing to bet there's something better on the horizon, and very soon! (Perhaps a trip to the U.S.?) As far as jobs go, there will be a fit for someone bright, willing to work, and caring as yourself. Just tread lightly at first, test the water before you jump in. If it's a good fit, you'll soon feel it, then just shine!
Don't fault yourself...you didn't nothing wrong. We're here for ya!
Daisylee
Phooey on them! And shame on your boss for letting them run over the both of you! I'm heart broken you have to be back at square one, but I'm willing to bet there's something better on the horizon, and very soon! (Perhaps a trip to the U.S.?) As far as jobs go, there will be a fit for someone bright, willing to work, and caring as yourself. Just tread lightly at first, test the water before you jump in. If it's a good fit, you'll soon feel it, then just shine!
Don't fault yourself...you didn't nothing wrong. We're here for ya!
Daisylee
Title: Re: It's not what you know...
Post by: craftygirl on May 01, 2001, 09:16:46 pm
Liz, I'm sorry to hear it too but agree with everyone about being your own witty clever self. :-) (Larger than life huh? I've never heard it put quite THAT way before! LOL I am too though.)
Hugs
Shannon
Hugs
Shannon
Title: Hugs to you....
Post by: superninjaadmin on May 02, 2001, 12:15:33 pm
Wow! Sorry to hear what happened - it's awful and unfair. With everything you told us, I wouldn't be surprised if your boss wasn't telling you the whole truth about "why" this happened. Don't let that bother you though, 'cuz that's their problem, not yours! It's too bad when people like this don't appreciate the ASSET they have in an employee like you. Well, just keep believing in yourself.
I have to answer the questions you asked:
Do admins really go to work every day and hide themselves?
NO! I let my true colors shine through at work, and so far (six years into it) the future is bright, bright, bright!!
Do I need to keep looking until I find my niche or do I need to change myself to fit in?
YES and NO! Yes to keep looking...remember that your niche will find YOU if you keep your attitude on the right track. But, NEVER NEVER change yourself to fit in! You have to be you 100%.
Are there creative industries where I'd be welcome? Or should I give up on being an admin and go and get trained to do something else?
Of course there are creative industries that welcome talented, creative, innovative, action-oriented, forward-thinking admins like you...I know, 'cuz I happen to work for one that appreciates me for who (and what) I am.
Don't give up and keep believing in yourself. Know that you will be OK. One door shuts, but another (bigger and brighter) door opens. It has happened to me, and it will happen for you, too.
Take care............
I have to answer the questions you asked:
Do admins really go to work every day and hide themselves?
NO! I let my true colors shine through at work, and so far (six years into it) the future is bright, bright, bright!!
Do I need to keep looking until I find my niche or do I need to change myself to fit in?
YES and NO! Yes to keep looking...remember that your niche will find YOU if you keep your attitude on the right track. But, NEVER NEVER change yourself to fit in! You have to be you 100%.
Are there creative industries where I'd be welcome? Or should I give up on being an admin and go and get trained to do something else?
Of course there are creative industries that welcome talented, creative, innovative, action-oriented, forward-thinking admins like you...I know, 'cuz I happen to work for one that appreciates me for who (and what) I am.
Don't give up and keep believing in yourself. Know that you will be OK. One door shuts, but another (bigger and brighter) door opens. It has happened to me, and it will happen for you, too.
Take care............
Title: Reaching out over the ocean
Post by: kohinoor on May 02, 2001, 02:05:16 am
Bethalize,
I am so sorry that it was with a german company that you made this bad experience. But I do assure you that not all german companies (and their managers) are like this.
It is true that status between managers and Admins is very different (even though those highly paid managers couldn't cope without us admins)and you will rarely find one of those managers to admit in public that his PA is really bright and the one who runs everything efficiently. But at least you do have some managers (like my boss) who tell you that they think you are doing a great job and who even accept criticism from you.
Maybe part of your difficulties are cultural (though I can't imagine that this is the real cause). Just one example: Even though I know that american people tend to use the first name even with people they don't know very well I am still surprised each time somebody uses my first name even if we are not really acquainted (and without asking if it's all right or not). I just accept it and do not remark on it but there are many Germans who do not like behaviour like this and would think it very very rude.
But, as I already said, I agree with some of the others: I do not think this is the real cause. The real cause probably is politics and your boss (ex boss) just is too weak as a personality. Let him go to hell and go out looking for a boss with a strong personality who will support a PA with a strong personality and you will see you then will be a dream team.
Good luck to you and the best wishes from the other end of the world.
KohiNoor
I am so sorry that it was with a german company that you made this bad experience. But I do assure you that not all german companies (and their managers) are like this.
It is true that status between managers and Admins is very different (even though those highly paid managers couldn't cope without us admins)and you will rarely find one of those managers to admit in public that his PA is really bright and the one who runs everything efficiently. But at least you do have some managers (like my boss) who tell you that they think you are doing a great job and who even accept criticism from you.
Maybe part of your difficulties are cultural (though I can't imagine that this is the real cause). Just one example: Even though I know that american people tend to use the first name even with people they don't know very well I am still surprised each time somebody uses my first name even if we are not really acquainted (and without asking if it's all right or not). I just accept it and do not remark on it but there are many Germans who do not like behaviour like this and would think it very very rude.
But, as I already said, I agree with some of the others: I do not think this is the real cause. The real cause probably is politics and your boss (ex boss) just is too weak as a personality. Let him go to hell and go out looking for a boss with a strong personality who will support a PA with a strong personality and you will see you then will be a dream team.
Good luck to you and the best wishes from the other end of the world.
KohiNoor
Title: I lost my job
Post by: nici on May 02, 2001, 02:28:36 am
I'm so sorry to hear that sad story, and as the others already said, I'm sure that the company did a big mistake to letting you go.
There is a thing that I like to say about Germany: As you know, I'm German too, and on this point I'm sorry too that you make bad experiences with my country. Yes, a lot of Germans don't understand the "American Way of Live", they seem to be very intolerant. But please believe me, there are also a lot of people here who are cosmopolitan and accept others as they are.
Wishing you all the best for your future, and I' think you are a great admin, simply because you don't hide yourself.
There is a thing that I like to say about Germany: As you know, I'm German too, and on this point I'm sorry too that you make bad experiences with my country. Yes, a lot of Germans don't understand the "American Way of Live", they seem to be very intolerant. But please believe me, there are also a lot of people here who are cosmopolitan and accept others as they are.
Wishing you all the best for your future, and I' think you are a great admin, simply because you don't hide yourself.
Title: Cultural differences
Post by: bethalize on May 02, 2001, 07:14:46 am
I do hope that the involvement of a German parent company in my termination does not or has not made any of our German posters here feel uncomfortable. Kohinoor, I appreciate your honesty when saying the status between admins and bosses is very different. I very much got the impression that the fact that I was "just a secretary" had a fair amount to do with it. If only I had known! If I had been from marketing for example I don't think they would have such a problem. It is possible that what we perceive as being bright and interested would be seen as being arrogant and demanding. I have to face the fact that I may well have acted inappropriately in a culture and an industry that I was new to and uninformed about. I shall know next time, but nobody warned me to be on my guard. (NB I don't think I want to work in a place where I have to act as though I am at school all the time). I think the fact that my background is in academia and creative industries and this was sales was also a factor. It is perhaps to do with the concept of "face" in a similar way to the Japanese, people cannot bear to lose face (whereas we would say that it is important to acknowledge weaknesses so that you can control them and address them).
I have NO DOUBT however that my boss was leaned on heavily. I also have no doubt that one of the senior sales people was having lots of conversations about me with the people she was meeting. Pincer attack. No wonder she looked so guilty when I offered to get her a sandwich at lunch time!
Nevertheless, it is behind me now, and as I have already been offered another interview I think I would like to chalk the whole thing up to experience, a learning experience.
I will just add sales to the list of industries that I don't want to work in!
I have NO DOUBT however that my boss was leaned on heavily. I also have no doubt that one of the senior sales people was having lots of conversations about me with the people she was meeting. Pincer attack. No wonder she looked so guilty when I offered to get her a sandwich at lunch time!
Nevertheless, it is behind me now, and as I have already been offered another interview I think I would like to chalk the whole thing up to experience, a learning experience.
I will just add sales to the list of industries that I don't want to work in!
Title: To Liz
Post by: goldenearring on May 02, 2001, 07:52:48 am
You are a winner, 'cross the board!
Title: Re: To Liz
Post by: countrigal on May 02, 2001, 08:37:13 am
Liz, I'm sorry to hear about the temporary downfall, but I'm glad to know that you've already gotten another interview lined up.
To answer the question regarding whether or not we admins hide ourselves... I think that most people, if they really looked at themselves, would say that we do depending on the situation. In my current position I had to hide some of my knowledge and skills and get creative in how I bring everyone around to my way (if possible). How much I have to hide depends on my boss, the length of time in a position, etc. I'm glad that in my current position I'm valued for my creativity, but when I started I hid some of that because it was seen as a threat to others. I'm currently getting ready to start a new job and I'll do the same thing there. Lay low, get a feel for the lay of the land, and then start showing all the creativity and go-get'edness that I have. One thing my father told me is that life and every job is a game. My goal is to play the game better than everyone else, which means sometimes feinting left or right before plowing ahead again. Hey, part of playing the game includes being able to tell folks that they are wrong with them not realising that that is what you just had them admit. Sometimes my creativity is shown in these more subtle ways of outmanuevering my co-workers or bosses. So far this game-playing has worked since I have progressed quite rapidly in my field. So, hiding our true colors isn't always a negative, though folks tend to think that it is.
Go get'em LIz!!!
To answer the question regarding whether or not we admins hide ourselves... I think that most people, if they really looked at themselves, would say that we do depending on the situation. In my current position I had to hide some of my knowledge and skills and get creative in how I bring everyone around to my way (if possible). How much I have to hide depends on my boss, the length of time in a position, etc. I'm glad that in my current position I'm valued for my creativity, but when I started I hid some of that because it was seen as a threat to others. I'm currently getting ready to start a new job and I'll do the same thing there. Lay low, get a feel for the lay of the land, and then start showing all the creativity and go-get'edness that I have. One thing my father told me is that life and every job is a game. My goal is to play the game better than everyone else, which means sometimes feinting left or right before plowing ahead again. Hey, part of playing the game includes being able to tell folks that they are wrong with them not realising that that is what you just had them admit. Sometimes my creativity is shown in these more subtle ways of outmanuevering my co-workers or bosses. So far this game-playing has worked since I have progressed quite rapidly in my field. So, hiding our true colors isn't always a negative, though folks tend to think that it is.
Go get'em LIz!!!
Title: Re: Cultural differences
Post by: nici on May 02, 2001, 09:54:53 am
ll find a company who is knowing about your worth.
Sending positive vibes from Germany
Sending positive vibes from Germany
Title: Re: To Liz
Post by: lioness70 on May 02, 2001, 11:12:23 am
Hi Liz! Look at it this way: if you don't want to be a PA, this is a golden opportunity to reinvent yourself. I was just where you are now, and I can tell you, I'm much happier where I am now. I also relate to the laundry list of complaints being told to you way after the fact. I hate when that happens! If they had a problem, they should have told you ASAP. But we all know some companies use that as an excuse to get rid of people who "just aren't working out"-the cowardly way.
As for the "bright, confident" admins stuff they claim to be looking for vs. admins who hide their real selves, I can honestly say this was one of my biggest problems with this profession. That's what some of my bosses wanted-quiet, subservient admins, and I was and am neither of those! It was also one of the problems I encountered in this last "job from hell." Now I admitted that some of it was my fault, i.e. looking for a cash cow and believing that part-time meant just that in terms of job commitment. Still, the company's other admins were indeed quiet and subservient, and when things started to happen (wearing sneakers, telling a company bigshot that I had my own work to finish and I wasn't staying overtime to do hers when I didn't work for her), trouble, and indeed, the end, loomed for me. That was NOT what the company wanted from an admin, and I found out a little too late.
Seriously, do some soul-searching and if you find out this just isn't the job for you, there's no shame in it. Maybe you will find a place that lets you be creative, confident, and an admin at the same time. I'm going through the same painful self-discoveries as you. Believe me, you'll be a better person once you come out of this phase, admin or not.
Finally, I echo what everyone else said: this was a bad, bad fit and indeed, you're better off without them.
Best wishes, Lioness
As for the "bright, confident" admins stuff they claim to be looking for vs. admins who hide their real selves, I can honestly say this was one of my biggest problems with this profession. That's what some of my bosses wanted-quiet, subservient admins, and I was and am neither of those! It was also one of the problems I encountered in this last "job from hell." Now I admitted that some of it was my fault, i.e. looking for a cash cow and believing that part-time meant just that in terms of job commitment. Still, the company's other admins were indeed quiet and subservient, and when things started to happen (wearing sneakers, telling a company bigshot that I had my own work to finish and I wasn't staying overtime to do hers when I didn't work for her), trouble, and indeed, the end, loomed for me. That was NOT what the company wanted from an admin, and I found out a little too late.
Seriously, do some soul-searching and if you find out this just isn't the job for you, there's no shame in it. Maybe you will find a place that lets you be creative, confident, and an admin at the same time. I'm going through the same painful self-discoveries as you. Believe me, you'll be a better person once you come out of this phase, admin or not.
Finally, I echo what everyone else said: this was a bad, bad fit and indeed, you're better off without them.
Best wishes, Lioness
Title: From Liz
Post by: bethalize on May 02, 2001, 01:46:20 pm
Lioness, I hear you. The thing is though that I thought a PA was exactly what I wanted to be. Where else can you use all your varied skills, be invaluable and have a large variety of work? I think that if I had only been my boss's PA things might have happened differently.
As far as I can see it my trouble is that I am considered too bright (if there is such a thing) for the jobs I am condsidered for and not experienced (five years of temping, one five-week full time job) enough or qualified for jobs with more responsibility. I'm not despairing yet of finding someone who wants a true Personal Assistant, but I am exploring other options like getting add-on qualifications.
As far as I can see it my trouble is that I am considered too bright (if there is such a thing) for the jobs I am condsidered for and not experienced (five years of temping, one five-week full time job) enough or qualified for jobs with more responsibility. I'm not despairing yet of finding someone who wants a true Personal Assistant, but I am exploring other options like getting add-on qualifications.