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Why does every thread that refers to the CPS exam and IAAP degenerate?



 ok, not *every* thread, but many ... looking back through the pages and pages of topics.

Degenerate? Only because people feel so passionately about things - which is good - and we always manage to pull back together.



I think it is good that people feel able to express strong opinions amongst the rest of us.



As for the odd misunderstanding and off day - well, we're only human after all.

(at least, I am).

Any topic that involves a subject that people are passionate about has the potential to degenerate.  I believe that the CPS Exam thread is an excellent thread.  There has been a lot of useful information exchanged and posters have done an excellent job getting the topic back on track.  My congratulations to all of you involved.  



WhiteSatin

Liz,



It's funny.  You and I posted at almost the same time and our answers were almost identical.  



WS  

You know, I really liked the CPS thread and sometimes the tone of different posters is hard to interpret since there is no face to face meeting.  I enjoyed learning everyone's opinions and it made me think about different aspects of the CPS test.



I agree, passions about IAAP and CPS are much like discussions between working moms and stay at home moms can be sometimes.

Well, it seems to be more than a passion for the subject.  Sometimes it gets downright rude.

I normally don't post but this is something I too have noticed.  I agree that when folks feel strongly about something that they will post accordingly. But what about seeing the other's viewpoint.  If it is a topic you feel strongly about why are you so quick to pick up your sword and skewer your opponent instead of calmly talking it out and perhaps swaying them to your view, and if not that, then at least parting friends who agree to disagree?

I don't have enough knowledge of the IAAP to speak intelligently about it, or their certification, but I can see both views.  It's like watching a tennis match. Volley 1 to the anti-IAAP, matched by the IAAP supporters.  I suspect the IAAP, as well as any certifications, degrees, etc, are only as good as the people in them, those who use them, and the location you are in.  

Where I am IAAP doesn't seem to be thought of that highly or as a beneficial source for admins to use, but from some of the posters here it appears that they have other experiences.  I don't belittle IAAP but I do stand by my thoughts that it is not a worthwhile group in my area.  Should that be changed? Yes.  Can it change?  Yes.  Should I be willing to head this up?  Yes, if I have the time.

So both parties, those for and against IAAP, are right.  Getting furious doesn't do anyone any favors and doesn't help anybody learn anything about IAAP.

Sorry so wordy.  No disrespect meant to anyone in particular or any group.

My point is just that this subject causes more snide comments than any other on these boards.  Why is that?

Joleen, it is the passion that drives the people...  

dedlered, I'm sorry, but my passion for a subject does not cause me to make snide comments or mean replies.

Joleen, all that aside, the playground is in harmony, lets leave it be..





 

Not everyone is the same.  Sometimes we misinterpret the written word and take offense where none was intended.  I know that I have been guilty of that in the past which I'm not proud to admit (See my post in Proactive Article thread as an example).  We try to keep cool heads around here and for the most part, I believe we are succesful.



Ideally, we take the rude remarks and ignore them. Ocassionally a thread erupts into a flame war.  The problem is, once we hit the "Send" button, we can't take it back.



Other than people are passionate about CPS, I have no clue as to why CPS related threads tend to bring out the negative postings.  Do you have any ideas as to why this might be Joleen?  I'd like to hear your thoughts or theories because I sure can't come up with anything other than passion and misunderstanding of intent.



WS  

What do you mean, leave it be?  I'm asking a question.  What's the harm in that?

And before I state my theory on the subject, WhiteSatin, I would prefer to read the opinions of others.

I'm looking forward to that because I have often wondered the same thing.    Anybody else out there have any theories?



WS  

I think we tend to forget how much of our communication is non-verbal. Tone of voice, inflection, body language, and facial expression all play as important role in communication as our words do. It's very easy to misinterpret or take offense when all we see are the written words. I think this is why I find writing so difficult - I want to get my message across as clearly as possible, but I feel handicapped by only being able to use words. We are also unable to gauge the reaction of the recipient of our communication when we can't see or hear them. In a conversation, the give and take allows us to be much clearer and to head off any potential problems in a way that written communication doesn't. Sometimes what comes across as a snide remark wasn't meant to be one. (Of course, sometimes it was!) Just my humble opinion.

Barb

Good thought Barb - thanks for the other perspective.  That was something I didn't take into consideration before.



Anyone else got any ideas?

Well, Joleen (welcome to TAA!), I think the others are right - combine the ideas - when people are passionate, they may not word something the right way, it may come across as rude, but it may not be meant that way.  And some people are better verbal communicators, rather than written.



You say you have your own theory on it - care to share?

Just seemed to be a trend among certain people, is all.



I'll leave it be.

Joleen, in answer to your question, my dislike of the IAAP organization (and my inability to keep my mouth shut whenever the topic comes up) stems from my opinion that at the meetings I went to, we really didn't need them (IAAP).  They didn't provide one thing except their name to our meetings; they added no value except to promote their CPS exams, Prentice-Hall products, and (in my opinion) bo-ring organization.  (Why should a busy working mom spend soooooooo much time as Treasurer keeping track of the IAAP chapter's money when she could be learning far more and building confidence by assisting in keeping track of her own company's money?  It seems like a misplaced priority to me.)   And why give heart and soul to be a president this organization when it seems one would be able to reach and impact more people on a one-to-one or small group basis where there is not so much "business" to deal with?  It just doesn't make any sense to me.  I got far more out of networking with the women before and after dinner than I ever did out of any meeting content.  They're the ones with all the resources and expertise, not IAAP.



The entire program I attended (year-round) was put together and carried out by the members, with no help from IAAP at all.  In addition, I felt greatly used by one of their co-sponsors in the administrative recruiting business who sucked all of the information she could get out of me, and that was pretty much all she wanted:  how could I help her business and how could I help IAAP make more money and get more members.  As soon as I had given her what she wanted, that was the end of the meeting, with not even a casual inquiry as to what could they do to help me or the members of my chapter.  (For the record, it was NOT Nan DeMars, who is a gracious and caring lady in my book.)  It was at that moment in time that the Big Lightbulb in the Sky went on over my head!  We are grown women, and we don't need what I consider to be a dinosaur of an organization lending nothing but its name to any meetings.  All that is lacking in 90%+ of the people (mostly women) who belong to this organization is the self-confidence and willingness to do a little extra work to take their own ball over to their own court, and take it on home.  



I don't understand why anyone who truly wanted to promote themselves in the admin field or the business world would limit themselves to obtaining a CPS rating.  Why not go the distance and get the 4-year degree which has proven over time to be more valuable to advancement.  Of course, there are exceptions to this; there are exceptions to everything in this world.  I'm not saying that the CPS rating is a bad thing to do.  It's always good to aspire to improve oneself; however, the CPS rating is not the "be all and end all" which I feel it is promoted as.  And, it is the prerogative of each person to start and stop their education, as they see fit.  I'm not judging the motivations of people; I'm questioning the value of the CPS rating.



I'm considering with someone up here the idea of putting together lunchtime groups that will meet once a month, and we can talk about topics relevant to us without taking over half the time to handle business that nobody really seems to care about.  Most of us are too busy to go to the IAAP meetings, anyway.  We can meet for free, eat a lunch that costs a whole lot less than a dinner, we don't even have to pay to belong to it!  Of course, this will not eliminate the IAAP organization; there are countless hundreds, maybe thousands who I believe would give their left breast for the future of the organization, in my opinion.  I just think they're not seeing a bigger, better picture that's possible. And, you know, that's just fine - - for *them* - - but not for me.



My idea of a great retirement is not to end up in the Adobe Village (that video scared the cr*p out of me!  Yet, I realize for some people it is probably a great blessing / different folks, different strokes) after 30+ years of servitude in a field where I'm not expected to think, speak, or act of my own accord, as if I actually have something to give.  I have plenty to give, and I am blessed to have found an organization where I am able to put my best skills and abilities on display, develop them and work on improving the rest of me.  I believe that the majority of people who care enough to post here at this site have a lot to give, too.



As God in heaven is my witness, we all need to aspire to a far greater end result than the adobe village!!!  There is so much more available to us than is offered by large organizations.  It's time for a bigger vision; administrative professionals (and women in general) deserve more than IAAP seems willing (or able) to give.  I'll still probably buy an occasional book or two from their bookstore, though.  So, they're not entirely without merit.  (They provide educational resources, but THEY don't educate me; other people in this field do.)  Hope that answers your question.   Others will not agree with me; heck, just the sight of "GE" posting on IAAP angers some.   It fuels me to know that I offer up things that inspire others to post what is on their hearts and minds! There are other opinions, and I respect those.  I just don't agree with a lot of them.   Running to bed, like Mercury with a torch in hand, GE

Wow, Golden Earring, I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with IAAP.  I'm glad I didn't belong to that chapter either or I wouldn't still be a member of IAAP.  I've belonged to 4 different chapters of IAAP over the course of 20 years; they were all different.  I just recently spent 11 years with one of the biggest chapters in IAAP (at one time almost 150 members).  We had to make several changes along the way to please the majority of members.  Some of those changes were we alternated noon and dinner meetings every other month.  We also stopped having business meetings every month and went to quarterly business meetings.  The other meetings were for speakers, seminars, networking, or bosses day breakfasts, secretaries day luncheons, impact meetings, or a Christmas social.



I've also belonged to two medium-sized chapters (40-50 members). I now belong to a new chapter (chartered in May) that has 15 members.  I love it. You get to know every single person in the chapter.  We don't have regimented, parliamentary procedured meetings.  We have nice, informal meetings at the local cafeteria (much cheaper too). As we grow, we'll add speakers, seminars, etc. We run the meeting as we deem necessary; knowing that IAAP is backing us when needed.



I have been to Rancho Mirage (IAAP retirement home) in Albuquerque about 10 years ago during a SW District Conference.  I wasn't that impressed and I don't think I'd want to spend my declining years there either, but to each his own..



Anyway, sorry you didn't have such a great experience with IAAP, I can only speak from my own experience and fortunately it's been good.

ksmile - I didn't post my opinion because I've noticed that people are quick to condemn around here.  If I'm gonna get caught in the crossfire, I'd prefer it to be because of something I have specifically stated, not because you guys want the "playground in harmony".  That's just rude, and I've never seen someone else greeted with such a response.

Jolene, if I may...  The comment "the playground is in harmony" was referring back to the CPS thread where things had simmered down and gone back to a discussion level.  As an example of posts that can be taken wrong, as I read your posts I read someone just itching for a fight.  As I read it, almost every comment you made (after the initial question/comment) struck me as confrontational.  



It also struck me that you were fishing for certain comments from certain folks.  Since it appeared that no one was coming up with what you were wanting, KSmile, and others before her, asked you to give ideas.  Could she have worded it differently?  Yes.  Could we all word things differently occassionally?  Yes.



What I would like to see is some more of the honest discussion the GE and ExecSec have initiated.  Both feel strongly for opposing views but have not stooped to name calling or flame throwing.  If this information is not what you are wanting to find, please take the time to make a longer post, fully describing your views/opinions/desires and let us as a whole discuss them.  Maybe by posting them you can start the type of dialog that you were desiring.  If you feel that you will be caught in the crossfire for putting your opinions out here for us to read, how can you expect others to be willing to share theirs with you?  Are these people not entitled to that same fear?  Reading your posts I keep picturing a lion lying in wait, making soft noises now and then, luring the gazelle nearer and nearer before finally pouncing.  Come out in the open and lets discuss it.



Why do YOU think that heated discussions occur around any IAAP related topic?  I think it's safe to say that whatever your opinion you'll find folks who agree with you and folks who will disagree with you, and still others who will hold yet another view.  Start the discussion by voicing your view and letting folks come to you.



In closing, I feel safe speaking for all of the TAA Staff when I say that we in no way want to be purposely rude to anyone and are sorry if it came across that way.  We try to keep the boards friendly, an active exchange of ideas, opinions, and answers.  In doing this, occasionally corners get cut and "niceties" that would be there in a verbal communication are left out.  We have learned that this is true not only in ourselves but in others too.  Unfortunately there have been others "greeted this rudely", and I'm sure there will be others, but to date I have not known of any of them being done purposely.  All I can do is ask that you forgive this infraction and continue with the question you originally wanted to know.  

Wow, an apology for the comment, I never expected that.  Apology accepted.



As for me being a lion in wait, that's pretty funny.  Nice visual, hahaha.  (imagine a really petite woman lying in wait)



I *never* meant this thread to be confrontational, because there is enough of that in the IAAP posts.



I'm throwing this out there now, and getting ready to duck for cover.  



I think the IAAP posts degenerate because it seems that the IAAP members who reply are always making snide comments and they seem to look down on their noses at those of us who are not members.



I am not "fishing for certain comments from certain folks" but was trying to get other input before adding my own.  Is that wrong? I thought this was an open forum.  Please direct me as how I should respond.  Are the moderators the only ones allowed to question?

Jolene, I like your last post, and in response may I say that No, moderators are not the only one's allowed to ask questions.  You were well within your rights to ask the question but I know I for one was not sure what exactly you were looking for.  Now I understand and am able to agree with you.  So now we'll both duck.  



And I'm glad you got my humor... the lion in wait was meant to be humorous.



Your last post was exactly what I was hoping to get from you and is exactly what this site is about.  The exchange of ideas and promotion of discussion.  Let's see what occurs.

I can't give a first hand opinion of IAAP yet since I have just joined and will attend my first meeting in August. I have read the posts here closely to see what I may or may not look forward to getting out of it.  What I see is that it boils down to how the different chapters are organized and the people in them.  The Chapter I am joining meets once a month, has a speaker first and then the business meeting and in July they have a chapter sponsored family get together like a cookout.  (The speaker next month is from the community college where the meetings are held and will be speaking on going back to "continue" your education as an adult.  I can't wait to hear this because that is what I am doing - going back to school after 15 years of working.)  And on the upside, when the chapter received notice that I joined as a member at large, one of the members phoned me to invite me to the cookout and let me know when and where the meetings were and how they were handled.  That made me feel very welcome.



I get the impression that some chapters have meetings just to meet and discuss business and others offer speakers, seminars, etc. to help their members improve.  I can only hope that this chapter will be one that will help me increase my knowledge and help me get to know others with similar interests. If it doesn't, I won't feel I've lost anything by giving it a go.  







 

MLM668,



I hope that your IAAP experience will be a very positive one. It sounds like it's getting off on the right foot.



WS  

So now I'm curious.  Does anyone else have the same feelings/theory about IAAP and their threads on this website?

You get rabid nuts about every topic.

Me, I get that way when people start slamming Buffy.

Noooooo, won't have that!

Bwahahahahahaha - Liz, you're an Angel!    A radio personality here in Chicago recently had her second child.  Her first was a boy, they named Alexander, and they call him Xander.  Her second child was a girl, and her name is Anika, and they call her Anya.  Some people go a *bit* far.  I thought I was off my rocker to want to name our next pet Rupert, for Giles.  

Oooh! Giles!

I remember when he was voted the sexiest man on the telly. He was in the adverts for Nescafe Gold Blend. It was a will they, won't they thing for YEARS!

 

Yes, yes, Giles is yummy!!!



We like Spike the best, though.