PA and Secretary Community - Deskdemon.com

I just ordered study material to get ready for the CPS exam this fall.  I'm wondering if anyone has some pointers or knows of a study group.



Andrea,  what do you think of creating something like that?  

zachtam, I'm interested in learning more about the exam.  What topics are on it, what sorts of materials do you have to 'order', what is the cost?

go to:  www.iaap-hq.org/



it gives all the detailed information.  a few people here at TAA have taken it, so hopefully they will respond.

Winkie - I took the exam last May.  There are 3 parts (4 in the upcoming exam in November)...it covers Business Law, Accounting, Office Procedures and Management.  Some economics are also included.  The fourth part is kind of like a management test, most of the questions I've seen can be answered with good common sense.  



I didn't order any materials....I took classes at a local Jr. college....however, I only took the last part of them because I got in too late.  The instructor encouraged me to take those classes anyway, since you are allowed to retake any part you don't pass the first time.  Thankfully, I passed completely the first time!



It was a hard test; you are allowed to have a calculator for the math questions, and I found they asked the same questions a couple of times in different ways.  Again,  a LOT of it is just good common sense.



Don't know about the materials IAAP offers; I would think they are pretty good.  The only thing I did order from them was a CPS review something or other and it had a few questions in it of the type they ask on the test, but i didn't order study guides.



Hope this helps.



tlc in (humid) TN

Would anyone recommend the CPS exam in addition to a degree in Management then?  It sounds like all the CPS exam is, is the same course knowledge received in getting your management degree and would be superflous.

I took the CPS exam in 1996 and used Rob Metcalf's computer-based training material. I was very pleased with the quality of his material and feel it was instrumental in me passing all parts of the test on the first try. I'm thinking about taking the new fourth portion this fall in order to receive my CAP.



As far as whether the CPS is superfluous to someone with a management degree, IMHO this really depends on you. It does cover a lot of the same course material, and you really shouldn't need to take additional classes but just review your textbooks and notes if you still have them. Some companies value this kind of designation and some do not. I think it's probably more valuable to someone without a bachelor's degree or with a degree in another field. It's not like an accountant really needing a CPS to advance in his job, but it's definitely a nice to have.



Barb

Ok... that was kind of my thought on it, and since no one that I know of has a CPS certificate in this company I don't think they look at that as much as they do the degree.  So I'll just worry about finishing my degree.  I appreciate the opinion/viewpoint.

I took the CPS exam and the CAP exam because I don't have a college degree.  All the other posters are right, some companies are "hip" on the certification and some could care less and want you to have the degree.  The important thing to remember is that if you don't have a degree and you do have the certification, some colleges will give you college credit for the test.  The University of Oklahoma (College of Liberal Studies) gave me 38 hours of college credit for the CPS test (the one with 6 parts).  I already had 33 hours from when I went to college a long time ago.  So I went from freshman status to junior status because of the test.  I would suggest going for the test whether or not you have the college degree.  It really looks nice on your resume and it's a good conversation starter, plus it shows you are willing to go "above and beyond."

There's a lot of questions throughout this post.  First of all, I took the CPS exam back in 1996 and passed all three parts the first time.  As far as the exam and what it provides, I would have to say that if you are trying to rise through the ranks of an administrative career path, the CPS would definitely be beneficial.  It did help me to go from an administrative assistant to an executive assistant.  As for getting the CPS in addition to a management degree, I would say don't bother.  Simply because the CPS covers some of the same areas that are included in a management degree (business law, accounting, economics and management) and because the CPS is not considered by too many recruiters and those that hire as being a criteria for someone applying for a management position.  The management degree is what they will be looking for.  Unfortunately, I have not seen too many companies who are even knowledgeable about the CPS.  When I was studying for the exam, I joined 3 other people from my IAAP chapter and we formed a study group that met once a week at one of our workplaces.  We had the study guides which we used for our weekly discussions.  None of us had taken the test before and two of the three of us who did take the test passed.  Right now I know two people who are taking a class through a technical college to prepare for the exam and they do not feel they are getting anything out of it (in this case, the reason has a lot to do with the teacher).  Anyway, getting the study guides and putting a group together who has an interest in taking the exam to meet on a regular basis and go over the material in the guides is all you need to do.  It's not difficult.  Good luck!~

I received my CPS in 1996.  The one huge advantage to holding a CPS is, if you haven't started your college education yet, you can receive up to I think it is 29 or 30 college credits toward a degree just for passing that one test.



This would be an important tidbit of information for those of you that have college-bound children headed into the business area of studies.  The only drawback is you have to have a certain number of years and level of experience before you are eligible to take the test.



It may or may not make a huge difference in your employment situation, but it looks good under "Professional Organizations" on your resume.  I too, used the Metcalfe books to study for the test and they were extremely informative and helpful.



WhiteSatin  

OK, correct me if I'm wrong, but CPS is Certified Professional Secretary and CAP is Certified Administrative Professional.  Is this right?



What does Business Law have to do with administrative work?

Winkiebear, Business Law is very relevant to being an admin.  How many times do contracts cross your desk?  I would say that admins come into contact with contracts in pretty much any discipline they would work in (banking, education, manufacturing, media, etc.)  Knowing how to read contracts would help when you're signing a catering event or room contract with a hotel.  



CPS and CAP are what you wrote above.

Actually I do not sign contracts.  Every company I have ever worked for has required that an officer of the company sign a contract.  Never have I heard of an admin signing a contract that binds the company, nor would I expect an admin to be able to do so.  Admins are not attorneys ... I do know how to read a contract, and have not taken a Business Law class.  I will be taking one, for my Business degree, but that has nothing to do with my administrative proficiencies.



  winkiebear

I almost forgot that the CPS does hold the equivalent of 32 college credits.  The thing is that some colleges accept them and some don't.  Every college is a little different on how they handle the CPS.  



I will have to agree with execsec that business law is valuable for admins and in my opinion for anyone.  Every business action has certain laws that go with it so it's important to know.  It will give you an edge.  The CPS also covers economics, accounting, and management, not to mention their new CAP section involving meeting organization and the like.  Other people will also question why some of those topics are included in a "Certified Professional Secretary" examination.  To each his own.        

Well, I guess I'm questioning it because I want to understand more about it.



So, to paraphrase what I'm being told, is that the CPS makes sure that an admin has at least minimal knowledge of business life.  



An accountant would have accounting knowledge, an economist would have economic knowledge, an attorney would have law knowledge, a certified meeting planner would have meeting planning knowledge, and so on and so forth.



So it seems to me that the benefit to this CPS or CAP title would be mostly for a business, as they could expect an admin to do what a specialist would charge hundreds for.

Winkie,



Don't they do that already?????





I am planning on taking the CPS after I complete a few of my credits for my ASB.  I doubt my boss has ever heard of it, but I want to do it for me to prove that all these years of being an admin has only made me smarter.  I'm just now starting on my college education and I finished high school 15 years ago.  Again it for me, not anyone else.  



Those of you who are already CPS's - didn't passing the test make you feel better about yourself?  Didn't it give you more pride in your abilities??

OK, I just checked out the information on IAAP's site.  Am I right, that IAAP has a $15 booklet to help you study, and that you are supposed to purchase college textbooks to assist in the rest of your studying?

You're right, winkiebear.  The CPS gives administrative personnel a broader knowledge of business which will enable them to grow and be more valuable in their position.  I'm sure you know, as most any person in an administrative role, that an "admin" wears many hats and many need to know the different areas of a company to get what they need to get things done (at least that's been the case with me).  As for the issue of contracts, I am a manager and yes, I am required to have our legal department go over contracts and give their blessing before the contract is signed by either myself or a higher level manager depending on the amount of the contract if it involves money and what the contract is for.  In my opinion, there is so much involved in law, that it's best left to attorneys to decipher.  When I was an executive assistant, I did have the authority to sign most contracts for meetings/events I set up outside the company.  The meetings and events were not large.  Now that I work for a very large corporation and the events and meetings I organize as part of my job are quite a big larger they do require higher level approval.  Back on the subject of CPS, it's a good exam for admins to take because of the fact that we're not a specialized profession -- we're usually jacks & jills of all trades.    

mlm, congratulations on your decision to pursue the CPS.  I will definitely agree with you that working as an admin only makes you smarter .... where else can you learn resourcefulness, intensity, prioritization ....



As for pride in abilities, do you need a title to tell you that?  I know that admins are known as the 'go-to' people in the company ... if you don't know you go to George or Betty ... but is the CAP/CPS something more than a self-esteem boost?



I know that when I attain my college degree, I will be immensely proud of myself, because of the obstacles I've overcome and the road I've traveled.  I don't believe it will make me 'feel better' about myself, but it will make me feel proud of what I've achieved, and it will take me closer to my ultimate goal.



But I'm wondering why the topics are so varied, because it doesn't seem to me that the topics are 'real-world' based.

Regarding my attainment of the CPS, to this day I am very proud of achieving it.  The company I worked for when I took the test didn't realize the extent of it until I informed them of everything involved.  I did get a nice (unexpected) raise for achieving it.  There are books for each section of the test plus study guides for each book.  I don't think that has changed.  They list college texts for further information.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ms. G - please don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the CPS, and I'm not slamming anyone's achievement.  I'm questioning the validity of this test, and wondering more about the basis ... your achievements speak for themselves.

Also, does passing the CAP/CPS require any membership in IAAP?  Is there any other connection there, or is IAAP only the venue for the test?

And when you really start to think about it Winkiebear, business law permeates our profession.  Think about all the laws that come into play in the administration of our personnel benefits.  There are all of those federal laws and regulations involving payroll, Worker's Compensation, accident reports, required employment certifications to perform jobs, proposal documents, Confidentiality Agreements, Non-Disclosure Agreements, FMLA, Short-Term Disability, Long-Term Disability, Ethics and Compliance agreements to name a few items.  The list truly goes on and on.



The powers that be don't expect us to be lawyers, but it can only be beneficial for us to learn basic law and how it operates.  The CPS, and the CAP are not representing that we are experts in these fields, only that we have taken the extra steps to learn the basics to expand our knowledge base.



I hope this clarifies this to you a little more.



Got questions, keep asking.  



WhiteSatin    

I know you're not "dissing" the CPS, winkiebear.  I realize you're just trying to get an understanding of it's value.  I would say until you've taken a look at the text books and seen what is involved, it will be hard for you to determine the answer to that question.  You're going to get a variety of opinions, positive and negative.  All I know is that it is an exam that's been given for the past 50 years and I have come across a number of people along my career (which I, just like you, have fought to achieve) that have told me that the CPS was part of what helped them get to the high level positions they currently held.  I continually hear the comment, "Doesn't the CPS just give you a boost to your self esteem?"  I would have to come back and say, "Isn't that what achieving any goal does?"  

No, you don't have to be a member of IAAP to take the test. There may be a slightly higher fee for non-members though.  IAAP is the only association that gives the test.

Winkie,



I realize it may be hard to understand why certain topics are covered on the exam, but you hit on it in your reply to my previous post.  As admins, we are the go to people.   As admins, we never really know what we are going to be asked to do next.  The more we know, the better we are able to assist those we work for. And the more we know, the more responsiblities we can earn.



You may not see the relevance now, but once you start studying those topics, you will be surprised how much of them relate to your everyday life.



As far as membership in IAAP - its not required in order to take the exam, but as Msgladiator says, you can get a reduced fee by being a member.  Also, by joining a local chapter, you may be able to meet others who have or are going to take the test.  These kinds of contacts can be invaluable in helping you get prepared.



Good Luck in your studies.

Further to what CountriGal and Execsec were saying...I am the only CPS in my company (a "very" large corporation) and HR doesn't have a clue what CPS stands for, although I've tried to tell them.  I wouldn't dare put "CPS" after my name like so many of you probably do, although I would like to and have earned the right.  My company honors experience, not education.  It's discouraging.  

Winkie,



I'd like to offer my input as well.  I passed the CPS exam in 1980 when it was still 6 parts and took two days to complete!  The personal satisfaction when I finally passed (it took me 3 tries to pass all 6 parts) was tremendous.  My boss at the time was also very supportive of my efforts and wrote a "blurb" about me in the corporate newsletter (35,000+ circulation!!).



Years later, the CPS designation helped me to get my current position.  The HR manager was also a CPS and went on to get her degree in Human Resource Management, so she knew exactly what amount of hard work and study goes into attaining the designation.  She made it a point to mention this credential to each manager who interviewed me, and I was told later that it was the "deciding factor" between hiring me and another highly qualified person.



I recently decided to get a degree in Office Administration, and the community college I applied to has granted me 27 credits toward the degree before I even attend my first class!  Once I get the degree, I'd like to go on for a Bachelor's Degree in Human Resource Management.  Some of the electives I'll take for the Office Administration degree will be a start in that direction, so the CPS designation can also be a stepping stone for someone who wants to move up.



In summary, yes -- the CPS designation has been well worth the effort it takes.



Energizer

Ohiosec, I think I'd put those initials behind my name anyway.  You earned it and you deserve it!  Besides if you don't "toot" your own horn no one else will do it for you.  



Sitting for the CPS even if you already have your college degree is just icing on the cake.  My cake is a little flat (no degree) but I've got the icing!  The CPS/CAP certification just shows that you have gone beyond normal "book" learning in college and that you care to be the very best you can be.  Think about other disciplines, i.e., Human Resources, don't they have certifications with initials, and certified meeting planners, and even real estate people, can't they take extra exams to show that they have knowledge in certain areas of their business?  Who would you rather go to (or hire) -- someone that has initials behind their name (which usually means they have some "extra" knowledge) or someone who doesn't?



Please check into the CPS/CAP exam, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.  If you've been in the workforce for a while it should be easy to pass with some review work.

In reading all the posts it sounds like the CPS/CAP exams can be used either as a replacement for a degree or as a starting step towards a degree and that it helps in some companies to get promoted.  Sounds like a worthwhile exam for some, while it still will not help others at all.  But like any self-education pursuit, it is how each individual feels about it that marks it's importance.



To be honest, I haven't heard - or seen - that many admins working for the government getting this certificate/credentialing.  And as everyone knows, the government is not run like any other company really, so most of the classes (including my business management classes) don't really help in the daily job.  Every contract entered into by the government has to go through so many committees and approval steps that the admin is furthest from the actual person signing.

 

And it sounds like those that the CAP or CPS has helped received theirs a while ago and it helped them at that time.  Is there anyone who has received it recently or received a promotion/raise in the last year or so because of having their CPS or CAP?  Are companies still looking for CPS or CAP's for their admins or are they looking for different certifications (maybe MOUS or other computer types?) or degrees?

Oh, I forgot....  Someone brought up the HR topics/laws that Business Law would help with.  I'm not saying that it isn't what you learn via the CPS exam but I know in my college level Business Law class, that was not covered items.  The primary topic covered in that class was contracts which I found interesting and mildly helpful in my personal life, but not really helpful for my position.

I recently changed jobs (about 4 mos ago) and the reason why I got the job was because they advertised for someone with a college degree and/OR professional certification.  I got the salary I asked for and made the change.



I think the MOUS would also be great certification.  It would show that you have added "value" over someone who was not certified.

While I agree that the MOUS certification would definitely be a boost, I wonder if it would be a better certification, as it is something an Admin uses every day.  Let's face it, you can't get into the Admin world if you can't use a computer.  



I don't see the relevance for the other topics on the CPS exam.  Has anyone gotten use out of their CPS knowledge other than a job/promotion/raise?

Winkie,



I'm not trying to be difficult -- but what exactly are you looking for since you say "besides" job/promotion/raise?  Sounds to me as though any or all of those three things make it worthwhile to get the CPS designation.  I'm afraid you've lost me on this one.  Can you be more specific in what you are seeking?  Maybe then I can be more specific in my response.  



This sure is getting to be an interesting thread!  Where are we going with it?



Energizer

Wow, this is interesting!  A long, long time ago, from what I understand (and this is why I didn't take the CPS exam back in 1979) part of the exam covered typing and shorthand! I took shorthand in college, used it for one year, and never used it again.  I was scared, what if I couldn't remember some of my brief forms, what if I couldn't read my OWN SHORTHAND!!!  I had also heard that you had to bring your own typewriter to the test.  I didn't have a typewriter and where was I going to get one?  I held off taking the test until 1990.  By then they had dropped the shorthand and typing part of the test.  But the recertify thing had come into place. For those of you who don't know, anyone taking the CPS test after 1988 has to recertify, all those before were grandfathered in and don't have to recertify but probably should anyway.



Plus I was told by someone along the way that if you have your CPS designation you should REFUSE to take a typing test at job interviews.  The CPS designation means you have gone way beyond that part of the job and it's understood that you have those skills covered quite well.  I mean, they don't ask an engineer in an interview to pull out his slide rule do they?  Do they ask a CPA to get out their calculator and add numbers?  Heck no......



But back to the original question, the CPS/CAP test has evolved over the years just like our job descriptions have.  Some of us no longer have to type as much as we used to (on manuals with carbon paper no less) and are doing more administrative work (sitting in meetings instead of and for our bosses) etc.



 

Energizer, I'm looking for a 'for instance' ... such as, 'for instance, I actually used the knowledge I recieved from the test this one time .... '  (that's what I meant when I said instead of job/promotion/raise)



Execsec, you are right on the money, lady!  Why would someone with certification be required to take the basic tests?!

Winkie,



Oh...NOW I see!  That does make a difference in the type of response you get.  Thanks.



I could actually give you a couple of "for instances,"  but I'll stick to one that was actually fairly recent.  (It also has the potential to happen again several times over the course of the next 2 years):



In the Business Law section of the exam, you are expected to be able to understand contract language (Other than studying for the CPS exam, I never had a course in Business Law).  One of my job responsibilities is to process end-of-lease paperwork on equipment leases that my boss signs.  He gives the paperwork to me when it comes in from the leasing company, and I have to read through it and make sure it agrees with the original lease agreement.  I found a discrepancy in the final paperwork that would have cost us approximately $3,500 more in end-of-lease charges.  Without the Business Law info I learned, I would not have known which parts of the "fine print"  in the final paperwork would not "stand up in court."  In this case, they tried to bill us for additional rental because the equipment was not picked up before the expiration date of the lease, which according to the "fine print" they could do even if the date was missed by their people!  I told my boss he should insist that since we notified them in writing (as required) 90 days before the expiration date, and their shipping department didn't contact us to schedule pickup of the equipment (which they were required to do) until the week before the expiration date, the delay was their fault and we would not pay any additional rental charges.



So, Winkie, does this help... or would you like some additional "for instance's?"



Best regards,



Your buddy... Energizer  

Ding, ding, ding .... Yes, Energizer, that's what I'm looking for.



However, I'd like more input ... gimme more more more!

I took the CPS exam in 1992, passing all 6 parts on the first try, recertified in 1997, working on my second recertification, and planning to take the CAP in November. I also have a college degree. So, what am I getting at? Continuing education, life-long learning, keeping up with the trends of the industry, and our profession.



I took the exam shortly after I finished my college degree and only studied those parts that I was not comfortable with...Business Law, Accounting, Economics. After passing the exam, I continued taking classes, attending seminars and workshops, etc., to go toward my recertification.



I guess it is a personal thing...do you want this certification or can you do without it? In my present job, I am the only CPS in the office. Prior to this, I worked in a university setting where 50% of the administrative staff had the CPS certification.



Did I mention that I live in Tennessee and that State of Tennessee employees (including higher education) with clerical designation receive an automatic, legislative-mandated, 9% salary increase upon passing the exam?  

Winkiebear, I can give you another example too...  Two years after I passed my CPS exam I left my job of 10 years (they were scaling down) and I opened my own secretarial business, Secretarial Outsourcing Services (SOS when you need help).  This was before Virtual Assisting was popular.  I would not have had the self-confidence nor the knowledge (albeit with some help from hubby) to write my own business plan and take it to the bank for a small business loan to purchase equipment that I needed for my business. I'm sure the loan committee had to have taken my CPS into consideration.  Having my CPS set me apart from other do-it-yourselfers in the phone book.  I had my business for 2 years before my family moved to another City.  I decided not to start up the business there.  Having the CPS/CAP certification has only been positive for me.

Execsex, perhaps you might be able to help with TLC's post in the VA forum as you have started a business yourself. You must have lots of relative experience and helpful advice.

Ok, now I have a question?  I understand the need for recertification. Its makes sense to since other professionals such as lawyers and accountants are required to complete continuing education requirements yearly to stay licensed in here in Virginia.  How often is a CPS/CAP required to re-certify and what is involved?



By the way, does anyone have a suggestion of where I could find a refresher course in shorthand?  Or even where I could purchase an old textbook to refresh my memory of the characters.  I took it for two years in in high school and business school many moons ago and haven't used it since.  It would really come in handy now since I have a boss who like to dictate letters to me personally and especially in my college classes.

 

I'm back.  Hey, winkiebear, I'm going to throw this one back at you -- if you were putting together the CPS examination what would areas of study would you include in the exam?  



I guess we have different ways of thinking, that's all, and thought that through your work experience and your involvement in this site that is dedicated to admins that you would see the relevance of the topics included in the exam.  I see all the areas of the CPS exam as being relevant.  Having gone from the admin ranks to mgmt, it has definitely helped me.  How can the topics of management, business law, economics, office systems, event management, accounting be irrelevant to the secretarial/administrative profession?  

 may be subject to a temporary or permanent ban from the message boards.  



The full document can be read at :http://www.administrative-assistants.com/TOS.htm or by clicking the graphic which appears at the top of every forum board page.



Andrea

Site Administrator

Andrea,



Thanks for your input.  I'm not sure MsGladiator really intended to belittle those Admins who don't find relevance as much as she was trying to convince them to keep an open mind.  But maybe I'm being too generous.  Either way, your comments were right on the mark as far as keeping this thread going in the right direction.



As I said above, the things I learned while preparing for the CPS exam have served me well throughout my Admin career.  Studying for the exam gave me a more complete knowledge base in that when I come up against a particular situation, more often than not something jogs in my memory and I at least know that an answer is available.  Of course, sometimes I have to really think about it to remember where that answer can be found, (alzheimer's can strike at any time!!   ) but it really is helpful to know that the information is out there within my reach.  



Thanks again for your leadership.  You are appreciated.

Personally, I'm not questioning the relevance of the topics as much as the usefulness of the whole thing.  I'd like to hear how many folks have taken the exam and seen a positive response in their career.  And how many people took the exam and found it didn't help or didn't do what they thought it would and went on to get their degree.  And did getting a degree help?  Is this exam something that seems to have more affect in bigger companies or smaller companies?  On the west coast, east coast, overseas or everywhere?  Are there any folks who have this certification that work in government positions and did it help?



I guess basically I'm trying to get a template of who it works for best...is there any constants when comparing folks who have it and have suceeded or failed?  Trying to analyze the usefullness of it for myself or folks I know and getting some research from folks who have taken it.

I realize that msgladiator's tone may have been slightly misinterpreted but I too am interested to find out what everyone thinks would be relevant for certification as an admin.  As a personal holder of the CPS/CAP, what else could we come up with as a good measuring stick of our knowledge in the field?  I do think that IAAP (and I'm a member) sometimes makes the CPS exam sound like taking the CPA exam (it's given the same weekends, tries to cover a few of the same subjects, you have to bring a photo i.d., there's a proctor, etc.)  I mean don't get me wrong, I'm glad I have my certification and if they came up with another one, I take that exam too!  I'd do anything to make myself better at what I do and I guess by my taking the exam it shows that I'm willing to do whatever it takes to be the best.

Winkiebear, did anything I say in my posts offend, demean or belittle you?  I need to know because I don't know if Andrea was speaking for you or not.  It was not my intention though I cannot prevent if someone happens to misinterpret my words.  



I respect your opinion, Andrea.  I'm new to this site and haven't been posting long.  All I can say though is that because I am an administrator myself, I personally would take a neutral stand on topics when addressing the group I support especially when there are people who are for and against something.  This avoids alienating and/or offending anyone and shows support for everyone.



All I can say about the CPS exam and IAAP is that there is no doubt they both have helped me to get where I am today.  They've been giving the exam for over 50 years so there are thousands of CPS holders who have had similiar success stories - I've talked to some of them.  



Not everyone agrees on the value of the CPS and that's fine.  Those that have taken the exam say that they find the topics relevant.  For those who have not taken the test and feel the topics in the exam are not relevant to the profession, I would like to know what topics you feel ARE relevant?

MsG... truth be told, I did feel a bit slammed by your words.  And Andrea did not answer for me.



You asked a great question - what should be on the test ... and I'm still pondering it.  I will have to think on it for a bit.

Back to someone's question about recertification...you should recertify every 5 years. Although the CPS/CAP certification is not taken away after 5 years, it is required (recommended) that you recertify every 5 years to keep up with technology, changes, etc. There are a number of avenues to follow for recertification...but retaking the exam is not one of them! You recertify through seminars, CEUs, college courses, IAAP involvement, etc.



As I said in a earlier post, I have already recertified once and hope to again next year when my recertification is due. I also plan to take the CAP exam.

My sincere apologies, winkiebear.

Thanks, MsG.  

Ms. G, I merely quoted the rules that all posters at TAA should be familar with and though I didn't speak for winkie, I did respond to several members who asked me to check the thread, which I did and agreed with them.  



Of course you didn't realize how your wording came across, or I don't for a second believe you would have used it. It's not your style to be mean, sometimes that send button jumps up and hits our finger when we least expect it  



In this case, I speak for the site and not to the topic, it's my job and the job of the moderators to enforce the TOS and It'll be that way today, tomorrow and...  Always.  



Andrea

I read your first post again and see that we have a difference of opinion.  



Yes, you did quote the rules.  As administrator, you spoke for the site.  It's important to reiterate the rules.  



Are you not speaking for the topic though when you said: "My email box is chock FULL of letters from people who dont see the relationship between some of the CPS/CAP exam and today's marketplace."  And also, "Those who either don't understand, or are not supporters will not be denigrated for their viewpoints."  (your second "not" being in italics for emphasis).  What about those who responded positively and are members here as well?  



When you have a group of any size at a forum you will have those who support an issue and those those that do not support an issue.  Coming to this site I would have liked to have seen a more neutral approach taken by the leader when addressing topics, with opposing sides being treated equally, but as a new member and a supporter of the CPS, I didn't see that happen and I feel alienated, slighted and offended.

 







       



 

OK Guys.  We're losing focus here.  Can we PLEASE get back to the theme of this thread?  We had a really good give and take discussion going here.  



MsGladiator - you can email Andrea with your comments.  Her address as listed in her profile is Andrea@administrative-assistants.com.  I'm sure she'll respond to your concerns -- but this thread is not the place to do it.  Thanks.



Winkie - As for the thread -- another positive use of the information I learned while studying for the CPS exam is that I am not at a loss for how to interpret S&A reports that I receive on a monthly basis from our accounting department.  I have to take the data on those reports and prepare an analysis for my boss (he prefers to just see the "end results" rather than a detailed report).  When he first asked me to do that and I handed him the final report in less than an hour, he was really impressed!  



I'll be back with more examples later, Wink.  Enjoy your Friday.



Energizer

OK, I've been pondering this a while now ... not just since you asked, MsG., but for a while.



I don't think that 'CPS' should be a test that one can prepare for without proper schooling.  One wouldn't take the bar or the CPA test, without the proper schooling.  



With that said, I think that there should be a certification course one could take.  Not necessarily a 2- or 4- year degree, but perhaps an intensive 6- or 12- month course, with the test at the end.



The MOUS should be involved in this, typing, filing, etc., no doubt about it.  Other things I would suggest are negotiation skills ... confidentiality courses ... ethics ... communication skills ... the Internet as a research tool ... business writing ... basic project management ... customer service.



Just my opinion.

  winkie

Winkiebear, vo-techs around here currently offer programs that cater to admins.  I sat on the advisory board of our local vo-tech for 12 years.  They offer 12 - 15 month programs that cover a wide range of topics - accounting, communication, filing, typing (or keyboarding I think it's called), different software.  Everyone has to take certain "core" classes and then they can branch off and take courses specific to the industry they would like to enter, such as medical terminology, insurance coding, administrative classes (to be an office manager), accounting, etc.



Also, to be eligible to take the CPS/CAP exam, you must meet certain education and experience requirements. The number of years of experience is reduced by the amount of college you have taken.  Since I had only one year of college I had to verify more years of experience.  



A lot of the topics you mentioned can most easily be learned by on-the-job training and/or mentorship on the job.  How would you measure confidentiality on a test?  That should be an inherent part of any admin's job.  Did you know that the word secretary means (somewhere way back in history) "keeper of secrets?"  I know most admin's today don't want to be known as secretary, we have evolved; but the root of our job still contains some secretarial skills.



But I do agree with you on several of your suggestions, there are many areas that we all could brush up on.  Remember, our job is to assist, if we knew it all - we'd be the boss!!!!! (just joking)

I didn't say that you would measure anything but knowledge.  Obviously you wouldn't be able to do something like that on a test or in a classroom.  



The point I'm making is this ... my opinion of the CPS is that it is not relevant to what I've seen admins do.  And that is strictly my opinion.



Yet it seems every time I post my opinion in this thread, it's met with undertones of animosity.  So I would suggest, to those of you requesting opinions, to respect them.



And I'd like to thank everyone who became involved in this thread.  Some of the suggestions and comments were most helpful.



winkiebear

Well said, Winkie!  



I happen to know a couple of people who attained the CPS rating, and to this day they wonder why they bothered.  I guess it just depends on what your job entails as to how relevant the knowledge is.   There is a CPS who is also an Admin in another department at my location.  She does mostly credit collections and very little typing.  Very rarely does she do any of the other standard "Admin Assistant" type functions like travel arrangements, meeting planning, spreadsheets, etc., yet her title is Administrative Assistant.



No matter how you feel about its relevance, knowledge is never "wasted."  If nothing else, it gives you a more rounded perspective.



And, Wink, you've obviously become well-schooled in the fine art of diplomacy.  My hat's off to you!    

Thanks Energizer.  

Hey winkie, I'm sorry, I never meant any animosity toward you.  I'm just trying to convince you that attaining your CPS/CAP is a good thing!  Even if now you can't use it, down the road, you might need it.  Life is uncertain and so are jobs.  I used to think that people got jobs and kept them forever (I hated interviewing "job hoppers.").  Boy, have I changed my attitude.  Every time I've changed jobs I've learned sooooo much more.  If I had stayed at some of the jobs I had been at already 5 and 10 years, I would never have learned some of the things I know now (that helped me to pass the CAP exam).  Unless you feel that being an admin is not the field for you (but then why would you be involved with this site?) I highly recommend the test.  You may not need it now, but down the road, it could be the ace up your sleeve!



Again, I meant no disrepect or animosity, I just know from being on the Advisory Board at the vo-tech, so few people are going into the admin field these days and we "older" admins have to do all we can to convince "younger" people that it is a viable, rewarding, and professional career choice.

Execsec, I work for the Admin Authority because I enjoy the community spirit ... which doesn't seem to be permeating this thread.

For the record, I closed this thread down, pending discussion of the moderators and Editorial Board.  I forgot to post that in this thread.  However, it's being reopened, with a caution used several times in the past:      play nice, or play elsewhere.



winkiebear

 

 to say that I can do what I say I can do seems rather unimportant. I mean, I have only ever once had someone check that I can do what I say I can do. Is it the norm in the US to test you at job interviews? To what standard do they test you?

I swear, in five years of work I have NEVER been asked to do anything with figures!



The point I'm debating is not that whether you should be certified or not, but if it is prohibitively expensive, it can hardly be representative of the level of skilled workers available, surely?

Also, if it is prohibitive in terms of time, isn't that in itself counter-inclusive? (can you even say that?).

I think that using software packages should be tested and certified differently from other softer skills or specialist subjects like HR. What does anyone else think?



What I would really like is a super-admin certificate made up of LOTS of modules, some software, some softer subjects, but a balance of each, that I  could just test for the bits I can do and invest in learning what I don't know properly.





 

I'm puzzled.  I am a member of IAAP and have my CPS.  What puzzles me?  Liz lives in England and she can't take the CPS or CAP exam?  What's up with that?  I thought IAAP was an international organization.  Surely, you would think that the test would be given in England!



What about some of you from Germany, Amsterdam, etc.?  Do you have the CPS exam, CAP exam and membership in IAAP available to you?  Now I'm really curious . . . .  



WhiteSatin

Liz, speaking from my own experience, every time I have interviewed for an admin position, I have been tested - typing tests (for accuracy and speed), and Microsoft Office tests (one for each program, Word, Excel, and PowerPoint), and timed filing tests (checking to make sure I know my ABC's).



Not having a CPS, I don't know if you can beg off any of those tests if you do have one.



And WS, you are 100% right - if IAAP is international, why wouldn't their certification be also?

Personally speaking, I never took the CPS , but this is my opinion on it:  It is certainly worth having if you're with a company that wants develop you, but I don't see the point if you're in a traditional office job and the company doesn't develop their administrative staff.  None of my employers even knew what the CPS was!  None of the admins I came in contact with over the years had a CPS.  I did read the materials, and I think a CPS is wonderful to have because after earning it, you have a wealth of information-but I wouldn't want it to go unused.

Well, here is my opinion.  I know (LOL) you've all been breathlessly waiting.  The CPS rating is only as good as the work ethic/determination/goal-setting/vision of the person who has attained it.  If a person gets a CPS and thinks that it is an automatic "in" to a better job, that is not real-world thinking in my opinion.  That would be like thinking that just because you've earned your 4-year degree that you deserve a promotion.  To get ahead, there are other things besides "book smarts" that need to be considered, but that is a different talk show.  One of the overriding questions here, IMHO, seems to be, "Will earning the CPS designation will get a person a better job," and the answer is:  not necessarily.  I don't have an overly high opinion of IAAP, although I think that the gathering of like-minded/like-careered people is a good thing.  There certainly is value in working hard to earn the CPS; however, I think the value to the title-holder in the workplace is waaaaay oversold by IAAP.  

Ok, now I'm REALLY not trying to stir up the pot here in this potentially venemous thread, but....



If the CPS is available only thru IAAP, rather than a general test, everyone offers it, open to all, (think RN, LPN in the nursing fields as an example)why is it beneficial anyway? In my opinion, all it appears to do is keep the memberships into IAAP flowing fresh. Sure, I'm a younger admin. But I've never found an employer YET that recognizes it's value, let alone even KNEW what it was. (My mother sat for the CPS in 1983(?) and has yet to find value in it either) So, it's just chalked up to the same amount of integrity as any ol past employment venture. There are plenty of things I've learned from experience...  civil law being one of those things. Yet, experience or not... I'm an Admin, not an attorney... so while my knowledge might be appreciated for an office discussion on an issue, it's FAR from valued as a decision making tool. That's left up to the degree holders. Personally, I think I'd only get the CPS to apply toward my degree in order to avoid a few classes here and there.



If I wanted to be at the level of a  lawyer or an accountant, I'd just go to school and BE one.



Now, I happen to think the MOUS certification is worth it's weight in gold. It's a viable tool in everyday work. It's well-known, offered by just about any college and vocational school and definately respected.



Just my $.02, not trying to get ugly!



 

I agree with everyone above. The CPS certification is overly pushed by IAAP, but you don't have to be a member to take it.  What they are really pushing is the continuing education, because once you have the CPS/CAP you must continue your education to recertify.  



I also was curious as to why the test was not given in Great Britain so I got on the www.iaap-hq.org/ page and went to the test center locations.  It's given in a multitude of Caribbean countries and Central America, China and some other European countries but not in Great Britain.  I don't know why.



Also, my past employers did not know about the CPS test or the meaning so I had to educate them on the subject. Some were receptive; others were not impressed.  It really depends on the person holding the CPS certification and the company who employs that person and if their goals are similar.

So here's a big question... What is the cost for a CPS or CAP exam (without being an IAAP member) and can anyone show how this helped them (ie. a 10% raise after getting it, promotion to a position that pays x% more gotten due to this certification).  What's the cost to value ratio?  Is it a feel-good, continuing education advantage or is it a monetary one that pays for itself?

I just looked on the IAAP web page and the only "break" you get on the fees for the CPS/CAP exam is for the processing fee.  IAAP members pay $35, non-members pay $60.  The CPS exam costs $160.00, the CAP costs $225 (but CPS holders only have to pay a portion of this for the 4th part of the exam) no matter if you're an IAAP member or not.



From my experience in 1990, I received a 20% raise, new title, and new job responsibilities.



I paid for my study guides ($125) but the company paid for me to take the test, after I had passed.  I used the company's tuition reimbursement plan for this.

I received a 9% raise and new job title. I had to pay for the test myself, but it was worth it. I did not purchase the study guides but borrowed them from a friend and used books listed in bibliography from the library. It was worth it to me.



I believe that a country has to work with IAAP in order to become a testing center and it could be that GB hasn't pursued that avenue at this time.

I have been reading this thread with much interest (and some disapproval of the negativity between individuals) and I thought that I would weigh in with my opinion. I am a CPS (Nov-97) and  MOUS Office 97 Master (Word, Excel, PowerPoint 2000 completed; Access, Outlook 2000 pending).  I also have a host of other certifications and unique skills.



Neither the CPS nor the MOUS exam are particularly well known. The MOUS exam is increasing in publicity, but it is nowhere near common in the business world and most companies could not tell you what it is or who offers it. The CPS exam is known by only a rare few companies.



The power that you gain from certifications is the knowledge itself. Anytime you push yourself beyond your boundaries, explore new territories that you haven't learned about or encourage yourself to stretch your mental limits you are doing yourself a favor.



That favor may return itself in monetary gain or it may not. It may pave the path to promotions, raises, new jobs or it may not. It may benefit you tangibly with more money or intangibly with self confidence, better self esteem and more or it may not. But what it does give you and what no one can take away is increased knowledge. Knowledge is NEVER wasted even if it is not immediately apparent how it is used.



The CPS rating has benefitted me by allowing me to understand corporate annual reports to know whether the companies are financially stable or not when I am interviewing them. It has allowed me to develop contracts and proposals with proper wording for my boss so that the lawyer spends less time reviewing them and hence my boss saves money.  The behavioral sciences part in particular has helped me to reason with different personality types in new ways and to come up with new methods of motivation based on the individual's personal motivators. The CPS has expanded my knowledge of human resources issues which has come in useful in several positions.  It has prepared me for launching my own business (which I am in the process of doing).



I have had very high levels of authority and responsibility and my bosses have always not only respected my opinions and input, but actively solicited them. Did I get these positions as a result of my CPS? Probably not (although maybe it did - my last boss often bragged about my certifications to clients and associates). However, I did get them because I showed my bosses my ability to view the big picture, to think outside the box when considering solutions, and my persistence in keeping my skills up to date and broad.



The CPS and MOUS are not interchangeable. They are completely separate and they test different areas of expertise and knowledge. This is why I completed both of them.  



The CPS and a degree are not interchangeable. They each serve different roles and they are each of value. Each individual must decide what the relative value is for himself or herself. There are advantages and disadvantages to every certification or degree just as there are advantages and disadvantages to seeking knowledge or avoiding knowledge.



Marie

MsMarie, thank you for speaking up.  Your explanation and personal usage has clarified a lot for me regarding the CPS certification.  I'm sure it's the same as what others were trying to say and I was obtuse and not *gettin it*.



Contrary to what my posts might seem to say, I do agree that individuals need to grow and continue learning, whether or not they get monetary value from it.  For myself, I had to prove to myself that I could get my degree, which is why I'm doing that.  The subject I'm getting it in was chosen because it could - possibly - help me in my career.  Each person has their own goals for learning, and different degrees of education they desire.  Some folks don't want a degree or a certificate like the CPS, but go to career advancing seminars in their search for knowledge.  By no means is the way you get education or knowledge to be knocked - if you take the time to continue learning you are a step above those who sit back and watch the world change around them and this includes those folks who have a degree or CPS Certification or such.



On the whole I have found this discussion beneficial and informative.  I still have a few questions, but I'm getting closer to understanding some of the options available to admins everywhere for self-growth.

MsMarieH, you said it best.  Thank you.  The CPS is a certification.  It's continued education.  It's the equivalent of 32 college credits!  Why is it being considered "not relevant"?  



As for the posters who stated what they think should be in the exam:  Even though IAAP doesn't include the MOUS exam as part of the CPS, they promote MOUS and offer the MOUS certification tests at discounted rates at some of their educational events.  Typing, filing and those types of basic secretarial skills are taken into account in the experience requirement of the CPS application process (and these skills are more than likely learned in high school).  If you look into the actual contents of the study guides for each of part of the CPS exam, you will see that they covers:  negotiation, confidentiality, ethics, communication skills, the Internet, business writing, project management, customer service, and team building.  And that's only a small portion of what is covered.



If you continue to ask the question "What is the CPS' value?" than all I have to say is that with anything in life:  "You Get Out What You Put In".  You've heard it from me and others who said it plain and simple right here at this forum about how the CPS was beneficial to them and how we used it.  



If you haven't taken the exam or studied for it and know everything involved, can you really make an informed decision?  If you don't think the CPS is going to be helpful to you, it won't.  If you think it will be helpful and beneficial to you, it will.  Again, it's what's you do with it that makes the difference.



 

And please...for the record:  I am not responding to offend or belittle anyone - never have, never will.  Unfortunately, I am not responsible if someone misinterprets or makes an incorrect assumption of my good intentions.  If that happens all I can recommend is to take into consideration something I learned a few years ago which is a very beneficial business tool:  Q-TIP -- Quit Taking It Personal.  The reason I say that is because things are being taken personally here when they shouldn't be.  There is nothing personal here ladies!

Oh, MsGladiator . . . you were doing so well with your response.  I sensed a real desire to smooth the waters.  Then you sunk the boat with your last paragraph.  You really didn't need to add it.  Please, for the sake of this forum, let's drop this thread and maybe take it up again in a new format.



Winkie, I vote we remove this thread and start over!!!



Energizer  

I vote that we not be too hasty with the trigger finger and NOT delete this thread.  This is no flame war going on here.  msgladiator apparently finds herself in the same boat I've been in before:  frustrated because sometimes no matter what you try to say it *feels* like it gets misinterpreted or blown out of proportion or other.  For some reason, this IS a "hot" topic, and it would be a hot topic anywhere where people who care about the topic congregate.  I don't like IAAP/others do - - in the big scheme of everything else going on in the Milky Way Galaxy today, I ask you:  "So, what?"  I don't see where anybody has gone too far here.

Don't worry, ladies!  This is my final response.  I'm very sorry if my words caused a rise in some of you in this thread.    Can't change that.  I initially felt attacked by Andrea's responses in this thread (which were never addressed by Andrea).  Yes, I took it personally.  I'm only human like all of you.  If you haven't made mistakes, may you cast the first stone at me!  After more thought and putting the QTIP motto into perspective, I let it go.  It works.  Now I'm moving on to more important things.  Bye bye and QTIP (I really mean that in a positive way).

Well, energizer, maybe it IS time to delete the thread.  I retract my statement.  Apparently, msgladiator can prescribe but cannot swallow her own suggested medicine of Q-TIP.  I now get back to work.  See you all later!   <aaaaaaaaargh>

Doggone it, I'm not going to get into it with anyone here.  I must say, though, msgladiator, that they call me a manager, too, and I don't think it's the best form to throw the baby out with the bath water in this case and leave forever.  We're dealing with people here, even though we're hiding behind screen names.  Now, before I get myself into trouble, I bid you all au revoir!

OK, Andrea, this "Edit" feature leaves me looking like I don't know what I'm talking about when people can delete what I was referring to.  One last <aaargh> and outta here.

ahh yes GE but it provides a ready cure for foot in mouth disease alas we just have to live with it sometimes!  

OK, oh, wise one.

When I started this thread I didn't realize it would open such a big can of worms.  I was hoping that there would be enough interest out there to warrant Andrea/TAA to start some kind of online support/study area for those of us interested in taking the exam.  I think it would be a nice addition to TAA.

I have to agree with Zachtam, am looking for some online support...



I ordered the CPS study guides/software two months ago and I am overwhelmed.  I was never good at studying in high school (barely made it out alive) and only survived one semester in college so I don't have any good study habits to fall back on (but I am really intrigued with the whole CPS thing-continuing education).  My boss has been on me for years to continue my education.  So I don't know where to begin studying.  



I looked to my local IAAP chapter and have to say I am not interested in dealing with them at all.  They barely spoke to me at the "open membership meeting" I attended.  I felt like a complete outsider.  Most of these women work for the same company/been there so long all of the discussions kept turning to personal issues (kids, home, husband), etc.



I also looked to the other AA at work to see if anyone was interested in forming a study group.  You would have thought I was speaking in tongues.  Not one response from 20 - they also don't want to be bothered with any quarterly meetings, joining IAAP, etc.  Its very discouraging.



nolalady



 

Okay ladies, never let it be said we're not here to meet your needs. Draft a proposal and get it to me one that details what you'll need from us as a site? Chatroom, file uploads online white board or file sharing?



We can do this for you and we will.  Let me know please, Andrea@administrative-assistants.com

Andrea, Andrea, Andrea,



You are just asking way too much of me - I don't seem to have that kind of brain power right now.  It's been a really rough week.



Basically all I was after was a forum to post/answer questions.  Possibly upload files, but we could always just email back and forth for that.  An online chat would be nice, but there would have to be a lot of interested people for that to work.



OK - I'm leaving this up to the more creative admins but you now have my 2 cents.



Thanks Andrea and the rest of TAA for all your help and support.  

you got it Zac, your own forum for CPS/CAP online studies. Now,:taps her chin: password or non password? Do you really want to run the risk of some of the flame wars that have been known to happen breaking out in an environment where you're attempting to study? Conversely, so you want to lock yourself out of the help that some of your peers can provide?

Come on girl, if TAA can create a forum for you you can make some decisions.  



further, are you willing to be the email contact for this environment? :whimper: please, no more email for Andrea!

those of you who are interested in this spur of the moment idea, head over to the chat and let's discuss, it's 2:30 pm Eastern time now I'll hang for about half an hour

chat's at:

www.administrative-assist...e_room.htm

Sure, I can be the email contact.  I don't think password protected is a good idea.  I think (hope) that fellow posters will see that we are trying to help one another with specific topics and either help out or stay out.  I know, maybe a little naive, but I figure we are all professionals here and deserve the benefit of the doubt.  



Once the forum gets going and we can see how much interest there is and what types of information sharing takes place, we may want to consider different ways to share the info.  That's down the road some though.

okay, TAA can provide online forum, meeting room when reserved in advance and possibly white board and file sharing at the online level should you need that later on. (even a web page or two ina subweb should you find you have a use for it) Now you KNOW I can't possibly name it Study group, so come up with something catchy!



Moi

What a GREAT idea!  As a holder of the CPS designation, I would be more than happy to participate as a possible resource for those studying for the exam.



As for names for the group -- how about one of these:

CPS-in-waiting

CPS or bust

The CPS Zone



Just some suggestions.



Energizer  



 

nope cant use the term CPS in the Forum title bunnygirl ;) go more generic, CPS is copyright and you know how I feel about that I CAN make mention of it in the forum description (kinda sorta) with appropriate disclaimer. but the forum name itself has to be more generic.

 

Borrowing from Energizer...



The Certification Zone...

or C-zone for short?

What about



"Study Hall"

oh and bunnygirl, you just got yourself nominated as the Team Leader/moderator along with zac AND Nola, yeah you thought I forgot about you didn't ya Big Easy? Al in Favor say AYE?



Please forward appropriate contact information to me ASAP, email address and user name you wish to use and TITLE for under your names since I havent thought one up yet. tutor? mentor? Big cheese?  Send it to me at my TAA Email please: andrea@administrative-assistants.com



And and,,, can I have another bunny cause I lost mine in the crash and no one luvs me enough to send me another one :sniffle:?

 

Winkie once I have the email addresses in place I'll send them to you, please provide your soon to be patented, "everything you wanted to know about deleting a post at TAA" document to our new neighbors.

Oops!  I knew THAT about the copyright -- must have been a "senior moment."



Now then ...



How about:



Totally zoned

C...and then some

Super C



Energizer (one more time!!)      

Andrea,



Yikes!!!  Who me?  Well, ok -- if you insist.  I'll be happy to help as the moderator or whatever.  I'll e-mail you my info shortly.



 

I like the suggestions of "The Certification Zone" and "Study Hall"; they are both very appropriate titles and don't interfere with trademark information.  The certification zone could not only encompass the CPS and CAP but also the MOUS certification too.

Yes, or maybe "ProZone"



WS  

I like C-Zone...



What about Exami-nation?  (kinda corny but had to ask...)



 

OOOOoooooOOOOOoooohhhhhh! CountriGal! That is GOOD. I LIKE that.



WS  

 'Test Site'

actually I kinda like exami-nation, but we all know Im warped, still admin-nation, exami-nation:sigh: no? okay keep em coming folks.

WS - ProZone is cute, but it sounds too much like ProZac, which I assume people at least *think* about going on while they're studying for this thing.  LOL



My suggestions:



CPS Zone

CPS Corner

CPS (Come Prepared to Study)

CPS Think Tank

CPS (Come Prepared and Serious!)



OK, for somebody who won't be caught over in that forum, this is all you get.  Going out for birthday dinner!

AH! Think Tank, I like think tank. Just "think tank" nothing else?

Goodness............



I got home from school tonight, signed on to see what else had ben posted and my eyes practically bulged when I saw this thread was up to 107 posts.  



I have learned a lot from this and can agree and disagree with different points brought up.  I have my own reasons for wanted to pursue the exam (ie: to prove to myself that I really do know as much as I think     ) and I can see how it may not benefit my career where I work right now.  It all boils down to be being a personal choice for any of us.  



I can't wait for the new forum and sincerely hope it isn't limited to just the CPS exam.  It would be great if we could make it a general study area for all types of Admin certifications that are or may become available.  



Does anyone know of any others besides the CPS/CAP and MOUS?  I've done some searches before (that is how I found this place) but don't remember anything right off.  I'm willing to look some more if anyone is interested in more than just those two.  



Just a thought.

I like Think Tank too, though I'm glad to see that some folks liked my Exami-nation idea.  



GE... Can't use CPS anything, since we're hoping to put more in there than just that and the fact that CPS is copyrighted.



Think Tank seems to fit what we're hoping to accomplish with the whole forum thing...

OooooooHhhhhhhhhh      

Both are great -- can we combine them?  How about: The Exami-nation Think Tank

My top 3 picks:



1. "Think Tank"

2. "Exam-ination"

3. and I liked Joleen's, "Test Site"



GE, That's funny. ProZone, Prozac, YIKES!    



WS

  Myvote is for "Study Hall".  That name gives off the impression that anyone wanting to learn should come on in.!