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Ok this is a controversial one but it is of interest to me as we have recently had an incident where I work that has caused upset.

Many of you will have seen this month's OS Magazine (letters page) about people without children being discriminated against.  Last month a letter writer complained that they were fed up with having to cover for people who have children and have to leave work early, sometimes at short notice, or are given preference when it comes to holidays such as Christmas or indeed with flexible hours.

Now I have no problem with a parent having to go to a sick child or other emergency concering that child but I have to say it really gets on my nerves when preference for holidays, flexible working etc is given to people based on the fact that they have children.  My current employer operates this policy and, indeed, my last two employers did exactly the same.

One of my colleagues has recently been told that she is not allowed to cut her working week by a day (because of severe family problems) because preference is given to those with children only.

I think this is wrong.

Am I being too harsh?

Lems

Lems I partially agree with you .. I am personally always effected by situations like this due to a) Not having children b) not being married and still living with parents c) Having no responsibilities (So they say!)..  This however does not mean I do not earn the right to have my holiday entitlement etc when I require it, within reason. I am first to be called in at the weekend or asked to work bank holidays and it is presumed I will always work late at the drop of a hat as I have no children to get home to etc. I am however very conscious and understanding about the need for those employees with children to have more flexible working patterns I believe that if I ever have children I would like to be with them when they are on holiday, ill or needing me in anyway.  We are lucky enough here that there is a policy that if you need time off , flexible working due to uncontrollable circumstances all scenarios will be taken into consideration. They are especially accommodating to those who have elderly or infirm relatives or spouses with medical conditions.

Suze

Yes Suze, I agree, parents should have flexible working patterns but so should the rest of us if we can put forward a good enough case for it.

Also I know what you mean about singles getting called into work over the weekends, working late etc - I'm not exactly single but my partner lives and workes in the States most of the year so I am considered "single" and therefore have no life outside the office!!!

Lems

People have other family members besides children.  For example, in Ottawa, a woman was able to get leave from her job to take care of her sick husband.  He had cancer.  Mind you, she was employed by the government and that's a different world.  There was a big discussion about time off of work to take care of sick relatives, especially as the population ages and family members will have to take care of aging parents.

I don't see why, if a person gives enough notice for their leave/vacation request, they should be passed over in preference for people with kids.  I have kids and I make sure if I need to take vacation time, I submit my vacation requests early enough to allow for any scheduling changes.

If one of my kids is sick and I have to take a day off, it goes against my sick days.

However, it would also be nice if many employers could allow for flex-time and work-sharing since life no longer fits just into the 9-5 mold!

Edited by radaro on 15/10/03 03:04 PM.

From a parent.

No, I do not think you are bieing to harsh.  Just because someone does not have children, it does not mean that they don't have a "family" and don't have family "things" to do.  All though I have children, I don't "expect" special treatment because of them.  (A little understanding sometimes would be nice, but not special treatment).  And I make sure I let my boss know that I appreciate it when he does let me do things that are "kid" related.  Luckily, my dh and my schedules are such that usually one of us available.

Don't forget that for those of us without the responsibilty of children it's no problem to take holiday outside of the school holiday times when it's normally much cheaper and less busy.  

Personnally I've no problem about coming to work at the 'unsociable' times that everyone want's to book off e.g. between xmas and the new year.  The office is usually very quiet so it's a good time to address all those little things that you normally have no time for.  It's also quite fun over xmas to catch up with everyone and have an escape from the family (xmas day and boxing day is quite enough for me)!

The flexible working business can be a pain at times, but if I remember correctly a lot of this stems from workplace legislation.  I imagine many companies don't want to step above the minimum legal requirement and offer it more widely as it make things more complicated for them e.g. rotas, etc..  I don't necessarily agree, but I guess 'that's life'!

No - you're not being harsh at all.  In fact I find this even becomes a problem at interview stage.  I have been asked on a few occasions, my marital status, do I have children, can I work late etc, etc.  I think, and I know, that priority is def given to working mothers.  However we who don't have children, should not be treated differently if we have a sick parent or brother/sister to attend to.  I try not to give in to working late, nor do I especially arrive early in the mornings as I feel managers and colleagues notice these things and then a pattern develops and the next thing you know your boss says oh you stayed late last week, can you do the same tonight.

I'd like to point out that just because I am single and don't have children, does not mean I don't have a life and other interests and activities outside of work.  Just because a working mother has to leave at a certain time to pick up her children from the childminder, does not mean that I am going home to a meal for one to watch the tv.  Very often it is very much assumed that we have no reason or excuse not to stay behind - just because our boss does.

If your company operates a flexi system, then you are lucky and can drop off the kids in time before you get to work and vice versa in the evenings.  However what really bugs me is when working mothers go part-time, then leave their job.  By law the job must be advertised as they left it and in recent months, I have found there to be many vacant part-time posts which is no good to someone like me who is applying for full-time work.

Please share your comments with me so I get an idea how you feel about this too.

Gee4

Yes, I agree that is wrong!  Family is family and people are people, children or not.

I feel fortunate that my place of employment is starting to recognize that. It used to be we could take sick time only for our own illness or that of a spouse or child. Now it has been expanded to taking care of an ill parent, which is a good thing. More and more people are having to take care of elderly and ailing parents and that needs recognition and compassion too.  In addition, they are offering "family" insurance coverage to same-sex partners as well as traditional spouses.

I think this compassion should also extend to other family members--in some cases, even roommates/friends who are as close as family!

I'm lucky in that where I work offers Family Care Leave, which is tasked against your sick leave but does not have to be used when you are sick but can be for any family member that you take care of, even if only once in a while.  As for allowing us to work differing shifts... I'm glad to say that they look more at the job you do and how a different schedule will affect that, than whether you have kids, parents, or a spouse to take care of.  Most of the time the shift change is allowed, which makes it possible for parents to come in later in order to drop kids off at school or to allow an employee to take a sick parent/spouse to the doc, or they can leave earlier in order to do the same thing(s).  It's fair for all, whether a parent or spouse or single and taking care of someone else in your life...  If you have a need, they try to meet it.  Personally I'm not expecting any different treatment once I become a mother than I have had here for the past 2 years, and that's a nice comforting constant that I can count on.

CountriGal
Peer Moderator

I'm also lucky in having a flexible boss.  He knows I work my butt off when I'm here - but he also knows that I have a hubby who works night shift and two young children (daughter, 9 & son, 2) AND I'm in school!  Needless to say, my schedule is a real juggling act.  

And BTW, isn't asking about marital status/kids illegal?  I know they're not supposed to ask about that stuff here in the States, but I don't know about across the Atlantic there.  

:O)  Kat the Clerical

Yeah, it's supposed to be a no-no, but if it's worded carefully and cleverly, it can be got away with.

Jackie
www.iqps.org
Peer Moderator