Hi All - Back with Part 2

[vegasadmin]

Thanks so much for the advice you've given me in my previous posting today.  I agree that that (1994, 4-month long) job will probably never come up again.  I guess I've just always wondered if my conclusion that I couldn't have kept that job to save my life is correct and if the way I've always handled it in past job interviews was the right way to do things.



Anyway - the next job I got fired from.  I had been working as a temp for awhile - over a year - and got an assignment as the executive secretary for the nursing department in a convent for retired nuns (yes, really!).  This convent was part of a much larger health care system.  I jumped at the chance to go permanent, though looking back I can see there were several red flags that should have warned me not to take the job.  (i.e. - My boss fired her previous secretary after just two months, claiming she had taken a sick day and lied about it.  Boss said, "when I came in the next day, she was at her desk, throwing up in her waste basket, so I knew she'd lied the day before and she was nervous about being caught."  Boss's senior assistant had seen the secretary in a pharmacy the day before and boss concluded that if secretary was truly ill she wouldn't have left the house at all.  Also, boss didn't want to hire any of the internal applicants because she found something wrong with every single one of them.)



After being at this job for a few months, I found myself not liking the atmosphere in the department and I was waiting till my year was up so I could start applying for other positions outside of it.  Some things I didn't like - boss and her senior assistant were very racist and would make racist comments about the nurse aides behind their backs (not, of course, to their faces!), they gossiped - often maliciously - about other employees, boss encouraged supervisors to write up employees for infractions but would put the write-ups into employee files without showing them to the employees, and actively discouraged communication between the nursing supervisors, the departmental secretary and myself, even in things where communication was crucial.  Boss was very fond of the ambush style of job review.



(Just as an example of the infractions people were written up for:  when I began to suspect I was going to be fired, I looked into my own file - yes, I looked in without permission one day when boss was out and I was doing the filing - not something I've ever done before or since - and found at least half a dozen write-ups I'd never seen before.  One was by a nursing supervisor who was upset because I had a "Star Wars poster" in my room.  That made me laugh because a) it was Star Trek, not Star Wars <g> and b) it was a large picture that someone in another department had printed to test their new color printer and then given to me.  It sat on my shelf for one afternoon and I took it home that evening.)



In any case, for many years I was convinced that everything that went wrong at that job was all boss's and senior assistant's fault but over the past year I've thought about this very seriously and I know now that I contributed to the problems.  I didn't like or respect my boss and I'm sure that I didn't try nearly as hard as I thought I was to hide that fact.  There were places I could've - and should've - compromised with her but chose not too.  I didn't give 100% because I didn't like her.  I've learned (some of us take forever to learn, but we eventually do!) that that's no excuse.  I still believe that in the long run, I probably couldn't have saved that job  -there were just too many problems.  But I think now that, had I done things differently, I might have been able to stick around long enough to get a different job within the organization.



It did make me feel good that my co-workers (other department's secretaries and executive secretaries) and many of the Sisters were upset that I was fired and mad at boss.  But when it comes right down to it, that doesn't matter much, does it?



I was at that job from December of 1995 to February of 1997, one year of that as a permanent employee.  I suppose I could take it off my resume, because I'm at my fourth job since then (current job, temp job before I moved here, good job I was laid off from due to cutbacks, and the one I quit) but if I do, it only takes my resume back three years, which I don't think is long enough.  Generally in interviews I say that I found that I didn't enjoy working in the medical field and probably wouldn't go back to it.  That seems to work ok.  I don't think I've ever received a bad reference from that company because their official policy is that they never give any references, just dates of employment.



So my questions here are:  just for my own edification, what should I have done differently (besides the things I've already mentioned), how would any of you handle such a job situation, and am I handling this ok in interviews?



Thanks again, everyone!  You're all wonderful!



Colleen

[whitesatin]

Thanks for the update Colleen.  It seems like you're handling everything just fine.    I'm sure your prospective employers don't want to hear all of the gory details.



Sounds to me like you have learned a lot of hard lessons and learned them well.  That is to your advantage.  You can continue to say what you have been saying in the past if that has worked okay.



There is always the, "I felt it was time to move on to new experiences since I felt I had learned and contributed all I could at my former job".



You're a smart cookie. I'm sure you can handle this situation with poise and grace.  Good luck to you in your search and keep us posted as to your progress.



WhiteSatin  

[laundryhater]

I think if I was in that situation, I would have found a new job in a different company and resigned the convent as soon as I realized I did not get along with or respect the boss I was working under.



Life is too short to be stuck working for a boss you don't like, respect or get along with. As you learned, it affected your work also and you compounded the problem.



I also recommend never, ever looking into private files again. You may not have gotten caught but that still does not make it right.

[bethalize]

It's not right, but man, I totally sympathise.

You stayed for a long time, so I don't really see what the problem is. You "outgrew" the position, it was "time to move on", there were "changes in staffing" and any manner of other good reason.

Liz (who has had two permanent jobs ever and none lasted more than five weeks)

[Katie G]

Colleen:



Sounds like you, m'dear, have been through quite enough!  Hope it helps you to feel better to get all that stuff out.  (That's part of what we're all here for!)  Sending a boatload of positive vibes your way. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  



Sounds like you've got good answers for those "tough" questions.  And I'm sure you'll continue to get good advice here.  Hang in there, you'll make it!



Hugs,

Did

[solargal]

It sounds to me that if they did not want people looking in personnel files, then they should have them locked up somewhere.  In our office we would never have them in an unlocked file cabinet, as employees can really get their feelings hurt.  I have a lot of chances to look into the files because I'm assisting the manager, but I don't and when I have to send correspondence to HR or make copies of employee records I take my glasses off, etc so I don't read anything.  Then if one of the guys ask me something I don't have to lie I just say I never saw it, which is true.  

[elleny]

This topic leads to a good question.  Does a company have a right to deny you access to your HR file?  And do you look at your personel file or do you just assume it's ok?  I too was in the same situation with one of my jobs.  I found out that I had been "written up"  on several occasion.  They had even forged my name.  There was a lot of stuff involved in how I found out and what I did when I found out, but needless to say, I left that job with a decient settlement and a brand new clean and glowing file.  



I think that you are doing fine with it, and don't worry about it.  Personally I'd just leave it off my resume.  You can always say you decieded to take a year off or something like that.



Ellen (is it Friday yet?) in TX  

[bethalize]

10 to cover processing costs they have to provide you with ALL information about you and mentioning you within I think seven working days.

 

[spitfire78]

My company has a policy whereby all employees have the right to a copy of their personnel file.  I believe you are permitted to get a copy every 6 months.  I have been tempted to do it but never really took the time.  One admin I know asked for a copy, and HR told her to come down.  When she appeared at HR, they handed her the file, showed her the copy machine, and told her to help herself!  I've been here so long that my file must be HUGE, and I just haven't taken the time, since undoubtedly I'd have to copy it myself.  After reading these posts, though, perhaps it would be worth it just to see what's in it.

[vegasadmin]

Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to read through this and for your replies.



Laundryhater, if you'll go back and read more closely you'll see that I said that I had never before and have never since looked into my personnel file without permission.  You'll also see that I was doing my job - filing being part of my job - at the time.  Strictly speaking, I was not out of line being in that filing cabinet though just as strictly speaking, I certainly should have asked permission to see my file.  And why didn't I?  Because I believed - and to this day continue to believe - that Boss would've denied me permission until she had an opportunity to remove any write-ups or anything else remotely disciplinary.  As I said, she loved the ambush style of job review.  Also, I had heard her - on several occasions - blatantly lie to other employees and had no reason to assume she wouldn't do the same to me.  Still, if the same sort of situation were to occur again, I would certainly handle it differently, starting with asking to see my file.  And I definitely agree with you that it's not worth it staying at a job where you can't respect your boss.  Chalk up another lesson learned!



Which does bring up another topic of discussion - what would any you do if you asked to see your file and upon reviewing it suspected that items - such as write-up slips - had been pulled from it before it was given to you?  What if such items came back to bite you in the butt at a review?  (This is theoretical, here - not asking for advice, just some discussion!)  For example - I'm sorry, I don't remember who said she found write-ups with her forged signature in her file - but what would you have done if they hadn't been there at the time yet at your review they were shown to you as reasoning for a poor review and clearly predated when you looked into your file?  Just curious.



Thanks again, everyone.



Colleen

[elleny]

I don't normally do things like this, I'm not money hungery or anything, but I'd hire a lawyer.  Then I'd sue them for every penny I could get.  I'll tolerate a lot of things, but you don't disrespect my morals, ethics, or loyalty without facing my WRATH.



Ellen (you said I did WHAT???!!!???) in TX

[lioness70]

"I didn't like or respect my boss and I'm sure that I didn't try nearly as hard as I thought I was to hide that fact. There were places I could've - and should've - compromised with her but chose not too. I didn't give 100% because I didn't like her."  This was my BIGGEST fault as an admin.  It was THE reason why I couldn't succeed at being one.  I worked for people who I simply had no respect for (I'm talking about types that stole money from the company and tried to get people fired for no reason), and I'm not the type who can hide my feelings.   Something I'm still trying to work on.  My only solution is to work with someone I respect or work for myself.  I agree with whoever said you should have left as soon as you found out what kind of person she was-Lord knows, I would have spared myself grief a few times.  But what's done is done, and you grew from it and moved on.