Job Training/Skills Required??

[mlm668]

Recently I've seen a lot of discussions regarding the level of education that seems to be required for admin jobs these day.  On Saturday, I received a letter informing me that I didn't get a job I applied for a few months back.  The letter had a Xerox or scanned signature - no big deal really, but in my mind kind of tacky.  It also had a typo and the formatting of my address on the envelope was off.



This made me start to wonder if anyone is required to know business english/proper formatting to get an admin job anymore.  I took shorthand/office practices classes in high school (junior and senior year - parts I & II) and then went to a business (secretarial) school afterwards.  I had it "pounded" into my brain about proper grammar and formats in business documents.  These days, all employers seem to care about it getting someone with a college degree (of any type) to do what many of us were trained to do without the degree.  



I guess my question is, does anyone care about proper formatting/presentation anymore or do they just care that it gets done?  Do employers realize the image bad or sloppy formatting/grammar gives their company?  From my point of view, it should be a job requirement for admins.  No matter how smart a person is or how much education they have, not everyone has the knack for proper business english.



Does anyone else have an opinion on this?



 

[mlm668]

To clarify what I meet by poor formatting on the envelope, my mailing address is a P.O. Box.  Whoever typed the eveloped put my Box and street address on the same line separated by a comma.  



ie:      P.O. Box XX, XXXX Main Street

         Smalltown, VA XXXX





 

[countrigal]

I completely understand where you're coming from.  Unfortunately some of us are hindered by upper-level admins who don't know or care about the appropriate formating.  One thing I've noticed a lot of is that where ever you start, and how they tell you to do letters and such, is what you carry with you.  No matter what you learned in class, if the business doesn't do it that way then you have to change - even if it's "wrong" to you.  And when those individuals get in positions of authority over formatting, they tend to keep those bad habits.  For example, I know that the lead secretary in this facility has taken secretarial training, yet when we type letters for signature, the name is not typed in all caps.  Now this even goes against VA-wide policy on how letters or memos are to be typed.  But if I do it the right way, it gets sent back for correction.  Now I look like the idiot when I have no option in it.



I definitely think employers should a) Hire folks who know proper business writing techniques and b) Do not give up on those proper techniques just because someone told them to do it wrong before.

[ssc1208]

It might also have been the boss doing it, not the admin. Or it could have been a temp. Either way, it looks bad on the company, and just as a resume with typos would turn them off, the same thing turns you off. If they call you in six months and want to reinterview you because now they have an opening, you probably won't give them the time of day.



Our company has weird "quirks" which is different then how I learned it in school. One is that there is only one space between the state and the ZIP code in an address. I was always taught two spaces. The other thing is that we only put one space after a period, not two. That one wasn't so hard to unlearn because I wrote for the student newspaper at college, and that's journalistic style, to only have one space after the period.  

[dragonladybug]

Oh yes - this drives me nuts!  I absolutely feel it should be a requirement for admins.  Spelling, punctuation, and the ability to format a business letter should be a given - but it's not.



I am the type to notice typos in the newspaper or on the TV screen.  So any badly formatted business correspondence (be it letters, memos, faxes, even e-mails) has me shaking my head, and muttering to myself about secretarial handbooks being available at any library.

 

[Katie G]

I never had any "formal" secretarial training, but I DID pay attention in English class!  I'm always amazed at how many people with MASTER'S and DOCTORAL degrees are unable to construct a coherent sentence.  How on earth did they ever write their theses?

[countrigal]

Oh e-mails!!!  How about those admins who don't feel they need to know proper formatting for e-mails?  Especially those who TYPE LIKE THIS FOR PARAGRAPHS AND PARAGRAPHS.  When you kindly ask them not to type in all caps, or ask if they realise that this is considered yelling in written form they ignore you and continue.  I shudder every time I see an e-mail go from one particular admin in my company... she's responsible for sending e-mails to other facilities/companies.  She says that she doesnt' do that in e-mails that are going off-station, but I know I've seen a few forwarded back on-station that were typed like that.



My other pet-peeve with e-mails?  Reply button.  If you have a comment for the individual that sent the e-mail and no one else needs to know this information, use the Reply button, not the Reply To All!  I get enough e-mails without having to read that your daughter started school today (what does that have to do with the budget, btw?)!    



I'm thinking of starting classes, anyone want to join me in the teacher's seat?  

 

[laundryhater]

My half kidding/half serious suggestion....



If I was you, I would correct the letter (in red pen) and make notes in the margin about how the letter could have been done better. Don't be harsh, just gently suggest. Then mail it back to the interviewer. Reason? Maybe they will see that you would be a good asset to their company because you pay attention to detail and would do a better job than the person who typed the letter and change their minds about hiring you.



Caution: Do this at your own risk. They may think you are a smart aleck, they might be impressed. No way to tell what kind of personality you're dealing with.



 

[countrigal]

Now that's an idea I hadn't thought of Laundryhater...  Especially if you've already half-decided that that isn't the job for you it just might be the thing to do.  Maybe, if nothing else, it will teach the person who sent it out the importance of proofreading.  I'll have to keep that idea in mind for the next time I receive something like that.

[mlm668]

laundryhater -



To be honest, I had thought about pointing out the mistake to them.  It is one of those things that really burns me up because if one company has an admin that is careless like that, then we are all seen that way at one time or another.  Now, I'm by no means perfect - I don't dare think that anymore than I believe I'm irreplaceable to my boss.  But I do realize I can be a very critical person (something about myself I am trying to improve upon) and wanted to see if I was overreacting in this instance.



Fortunately, this job wasn't a had to have.  I love my present job.  I only applied for this one because it was an opportunity to learn something new, better pay scale and things at my present job are pretty slow right now.  A few things have changed/slightly improved since I interviewed (I received a 7% raise this year and have received some additional duties).  I intend to concentrate on school for the next few months and work on determining if I want to work on just my ASB or go further after I get that.

[laundryhater]

I think that's why we are good admins - we pay attention to details.



I always catch myself correcting spelling and grammar on stuff I read (even the daily newspaper). It bothers me to no end until I finally have to get out my red pen and correct it.



I noticed one day that I'm not the only one who does this around here:



The janitors put up stickers in the women's restroom above the sanitary waste baskets. The sentence asking women to wrap all sanitary disposals was spelled incorrectly. It must have bugged someone else besides me because it was corrected with red pen.

[laundryhater]

Check out Radar's posting under the humor forum titled "Human Resources". It's really good! LOL!